1 00:00:04,034 --> 00:00:07,931 -♪ Hey, everybody, have you heard the news? ♪ 2 00:00:08,034 --> 00:00:10,896 ♪ Joe Bob is back in town ♪ 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,758 ♪ He's over at the drive-in, hanging around ♪ 4 00:00:14,862 --> 00:00:17,862 ♪ Watching crazy movies, so come on down ♪ 5 00:00:17,965 --> 00:00:22,000 ♪ To Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪ 6 00:00:22,103 --> 00:00:25,620 ♪ Blood, beasties, boobies, and more ♪ 7 00:00:25,724 --> 00:00:28,862 ♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪ 8 00:00:28,965 --> 00:00:32,758 ♪ It's a spooky good time with monsters and ghosts ♪ 9 00:00:32,862 --> 00:00:36,482 ♪ Crazy, kooky fun with the world's greatest host ♪ 10 00:00:36,586 --> 00:00:38,586 ♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪ 11 00:00:38,689 --> 00:00:40,068 ♪ It's gonna be legendary ♪ 12 00:00:40,172 --> 00:00:42,275 ♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪ 13 00:00:42,379 --> 00:00:43,827 ♪ It's gonna be very scary ♪ 14 00:00:43,931 --> 00:00:46,724 ♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪ 15 00:00:46,827 --> 00:00:48,724 ♪ Let's go ♪ 16 00:00:58,793 --> 00:01:02,275 -Tonight, this is a really strange episode 17 00:01:02,379 --> 00:01:03,586 of "The Last Drive-In." 18 00:01:03,689 --> 00:01:06,379 We have four very distinguished guests 19 00:01:06,482 --> 00:01:08,068 and two very distinguished movies, 20 00:01:08,172 --> 00:01:10,413 and we're gonna present them in a whole new way. 21 00:01:10,517 --> 00:01:13,482 And I'm gonna set it up like this. 22 00:01:13,586 --> 00:01:16,551 You know a surefire way to start a fight? 23 00:01:16,655 --> 00:01:19,344 Hide your Wild Turkey? 24 00:01:19,448 --> 00:01:21,620 -Yeah. Well, yeah. 25 00:01:21,724 --> 00:01:25,310 But better than that, put two horror fanatics in the same room 26 00:01:25,413 --> 00:01:28,413 and ask them any of the following questions. 27 00:01:28,517 --> 00:01:30,862 -Oh, no. -What do you mean, "Oh, no?" 28 00:01:30,965 --> 00:01:33,310 -Well, I see you got yourself a chart over there. 29 00:01:33,413 --> 00:01:35,172 -Yes, Darcy, as a matter of fact, 30 00:01:35,275 --> 00:01:38,275 I have thoroughly researched the top 10 reasons 31 00:01:38,379 --> 00:01:41,275 that horror fans get into actual fistfights. 32 00:01:41,379 --> 00:01:42,793 -Actual fistfights? -Yes. 33 00:01:42,896 --> 00:01:44,241 -Okay. -Every horror fan 34 00:01:44,344 --> 00:01:45,758 has a favorites list, 35 00:01:45,862 --> 00:01:47,517 and the favorites list always indicates 36 00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:49,551 what kind of horror they're passionate about. 37 00:01:49,655 --> 00:01:53,551 And when you have a favorites list, it's just like music. 38 00:01:53,655 --> 00:01:54,896 It opens you up for somebody to say, 39 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,758 "You like that kind of music? 40 00:01:56,862 --> 00:01:58,655 I don't think I can know you anymore." 41 00:01:58,758 --> 00:02:00,413 -Okay. That definitely happens. 42 00:02:00,517 --> 00:02:02,413 -Alright, now, I want you to help me with this 43 00:02:02,517 --> 00:02:04,517 'cause you've seen all these arguments 44 00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:07,551 because of the places we go and the people that we talk to. 45 00:02:07,655 --> 00:02:09,482 And in fact, I tried this out 46 00:02:09,586 --> 00:02:11,310 at Midsummer Scream in Long Beach... 47 00:02:11,413 --> 00:02:12,758 -Yeah. -...and it almost caused 48 00:02:12,862 --> 00:02:14,724 fistfights on the convention floor. 49 00:02:14,827 --> 00:02:16,310 -Did it? -Alright, Darcy the Mail Girl, 50 00:02:16,413 --> 00:02:18,655 ladies and gentlemen, here to answer your questions, 51 00:02:18,758 --> 00:02:22,275 field your emails, your DMs, read your TikToks, or whatever. 52 00:02:22,379 --> 00:02:24,206 -I'll read your TikToks. -Get in touch with her 53 00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:26,551 to screw with us at any time during the evening. 54 00:02:26,655 --> 00:02:30,034 Okay, so, the first one is easy. 55 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:34,965 "Jaws is not a horror film." 56 00:02:35,068 --> 00:02:37,758 All you have to do is say this, and you'll get flak. 57 00:02:37,862 --> 00:02:40,482 This one is actually one of the most confusing things to me 58 00:02:40,586 --> 00:02:43,413 because -- giant creature eating people? 59 00:02:43,517 --> 00:02:45,655 I would think that's self-evidently horror, 60 00:02:45,758 --> 00:02:48,068 but, yes, this is an actual controversy. 61 00:02:48,172 --> 00:02:49,551 "What's your favorite horror film?" 62 00:02:49,655 --> 00:02:50,862 "'Jaws.'" 63 00:02:50,965 --> 00:02:52,862 "Okay, you're not a real horror fan." 64 00:02:52,965 --> 00:02:54,551 You know? Alright. 65 00:02:54,655 --> 00:02:56,379 So, that starts fistfights. 66 00:02:56,482 --> 00:02:58,827 But there are other ways to get your face bashed in 67 00:02:58,931 --> 00:03:01,344 by a horror hound. 68 00:03:01,448 --> 00:03:03,827 Number 9 -- 69 00:03:03,931 --> 00:03:07,344 "Hereditary" and "Midsommar" -- that's my idea of real horror. 70 00:03:07,448 --> 00:03:08,551 -Gross. -Yeah. 71 00:03:08,655 --> 00:03:10,655 You're a snob. 72 00:03:10,758 --> 00:03:12,931 That's how that all started. You're a snob. 73 00:03:13,034 --> 00:03:14,448 Take your Harvard degree 74 00:03:14,551 --> 00:03:16,965 and stick it in Freddy Krueger's furnace, man. 75 00:03:17,068 --> 00:03:18,413 You know? 76 00:03:18,517 --> 00:03:22,379 "Okay, so, what's your idea of real horror?" 77 00:03:22,482 --> 00:03:24,620 "How about freakin' 'Street Trash,' dude?" 78 00:03:24,724 --> 00:03:26,793 You know, we should actually have a debate sometime -- 79 00:03:26,896 --> 00:03:30,172 which is better, "Hereditary" or "Street Trash"? 80 00:03:30,275 --> 00:03:31,620 -Oh, it's "Street Trash." 81 00:03:31,724 --> 00:03:33,689 Debate over. Done. 82 00:03:33,793 --> 00:03:35,517 -I think when I did this one in Long Beach, 83 00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:37,862 the guy stood up and said, "I would like to say something 84 00:03:37,965 --> 00:03:40,379 in defense of 'Mid-so-mmar.'" 85 00:03:43,517 --> 00:03:46,551 I actually think our audience would be 50/50 on this one. 86 00:03:46,655 --> 00:03:49,172 Or we could do -- we could do, 87 00:03:49,275 --> 00:03:51,413 "What's the best child-abuse horror, 88 00:03:51,517 --> 00:03:54,655 'The Babadook' or 'Bride of Chucky'?" 89 00:03:54,758 --> 00:03:56,517 -"Bride of Chucky," but child abuse? 90 00:03:56,620 --> 00:03:58,793 Okay. But we should actually start doing these. 91 00:03:58,896 --> 00:04:00,137 -We are gonna start doing these. 92 00:04:00,241 --> 00:04:03,655 Okay, horror face-bashing controversy number 8... 93 00:04:05,793 --> 00:04:07,379 "The remake is better." 94 00:04:07,482 --> 00:04:10,172 -True. -Need I elaborate? 95 00:04:10,275 --> 00:04:12,620 -You know it's better? You admitted it. 96 00:04:12,724 --> 00:04:15,517 I did not say it was better. I said it was almost as good. 97 00:04:15,620 --> 00:04:19,034 So they spent $9.5 million to make a film 98 00:04:19,137 --> 00:04:22,724 that was almost as good as the $60,000 original. 99 00:04:22,827 --> 00:04:24,103 Come on, Darcy. 100 00:04:24,206 --> 00:04:26,551 -I think you are retracting what you said, 101 00:04:26,655 --> 00:04:28,103 but what difference does that make anyway? 102 00:04:28,206 --> 00:04:29,793 -Well, for those of you just tuning in, 103 00:04:29,896 --> 00:04:32,310 we're arguing here about "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre." 104 00:04:32,413 --> 00:04:34,827 -The remake is better. -Okay, but let's switch titles 105 00:04:34,931 --> 00:04:36,620 on this one, alright? -Okay. 106 00:04:36,724 --> 00:04:38,034 -Rob Zombie's "Halloween" 107 00:04:38,137 --> 00:04:40,551 is better than John Carpenter's "Halloween." 108 00:04:40,655 --> 00:04:42,586 -There are some people that really think that. 109 00:04:42,689 --> 00:04:44,620 I am not one of those. -Okay. Alright. 110 00:04:44,724 --> 00:04:46,655 -In fact I would say remake fights 111 00:04:46,758 --> 00:04:50,172 may be the most common way to break up friendships forever. 112 00:04:50,275 --> 00:04:52,793 But let's move on to number 7. 113 00:04:54,206 --> 00:04:55,379 Ah. 114 00:04:55,482 --> 00:04:58,241 "You don't need all that gore to be scary." 115 00:04:58,344 --> 00:05:00,034 -I know people who are like that for sure. 116 00:05:00,137 --> 00:05:03,965 -"Blood and guts is not scary." -Mnh. Those are not my people. 117 00:05:04,068 --> 00:05:06,413 -Or, you know, "I remember back in the day, 118 00:05:06,517 --> 00:05:09,517 it was all about what was not seen that scared you." 119 00:05:09,620 --> 00:05:10,965 True. 120 00:05:11,068 --> 00:05:13,551 -We could refer to this as the yuck factor. 121 00:05:13,655 --> 00:05:15,758 You know, some people don't want to see anything yucky. 122 00:05:15,862 --> 00:05:18,551 So they'll praise movies like "The Ring." 123 00:05:18,655 --> 00:05:20,172 "They didn't need any blood and gore for that." 124 00:05:20,275 --> 00:05:23,241 Or "Insidious" or maybe "Poltergeist," you know? 125 00:05:23,344 --> 00:05:25,689 "They didn't have any blood and gore in 'Poltergeist.'" 126 00:05:25,793 --> 00:05:27,034 -I don't think that's making their point, 127 00:05:27,137 --> 00:05:29,517 but there's room for all styles. -Okay. 128 00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:31,758 Exactly. Non-issue. Okay. 129 00:05:31,862 --> 00:05:35,172 Number 6. 130 00:05:35,275 --> 00:05:37,517 Oh, my God. 131 00:05:37,620 --> 00:05:39,000 Actually, I'm not sure about this one. 132 00:05:39,103 --> 00:05:40,827 "I love found footage films." 133 00:05:40,931 --> 00:05:43,034 Has anybody ever said that ever? -Yes. 134 00:05:43,137 --> 00:05:45,241 -"I want every film to be found footage." 135 00:05:45,344 --> 00:05:46,793 -I mean, there are definitely some 136 00:05:46,896 --> 00:05:48,551 found footage fanatics out there. 137 00:05:48,655 --> 00:05:51,689 -But it's mostly hated, right? Found footage is hated. 138 00:05:51,793 --> 00:05:54,068 -I don't know if it's widely hated, 139 00:05:54,172 --> 00:05:56,551 but it gets criticized for being lazy. 140 00:05:56,655 --> 00:05:58,793 -Oh, yeah. "That filmmaker was too lazy 141 00:05:58,896 --> 00:06:01,137 to make a real movie, so he did found footage." 142 00:06:01,241 --> 00:06:02,827 -That, yes. -Okay. 143 00:06:02,931 --> 00:06:04,793 Anyway, that's always a good fight topic. 144 00:06:04,896 --> 00:06:06,689 Alright, number 5! 145 00:06:06,793 --> 00:06:08,034 Oh. 146 00:06:08,137 --> 00:06:11,344 "A slow burn always pays off better." 147 00:06:11,448 --> 00:06:13,068 I know how you feel about this one. 148 00:06:13,172 --> 00:06:14,793 -Fuck slow burns, man. -Yeah. 149 00:06:14,896 --> 00:06:17,448 -I don't want that shit. -So, a movie like "The Shining" 150 00:06:17,551 --> 00:06:20,586 that, you know, trades with just a feeling of dread as opposed 151 00:06:20,689 --> 00:06:25,379 to non-stop kill scene set pieces like "Saw," you know? 152 00:06:25,482 --> 00:06:28,103 -Well, I would say the original "Saw" wasn't necessarily 153 00:06:28,206 --> 00:06:30,310 like that, but in general, give me "Saw" 154 00:06:30,413 --> 00:06:32,034 over "The Shining," like, every time. 155 00:06:32,137 --> 00:06:33,655 -We get a lot of slow-burn... -I said what I said. 156 00:06:33,758 --> 00:06:36,275 -...flak for stuff that we show here. 157 00:06:36,379 --> 00:06:39,344 Like, remember when we showed "The House of the Devil," 158 00:06:39,448 --> 00:06:40,793 you know, which has a very slow -- 159 00:06:40,896 --> 00:06:42,448 -Yeah, we should get flak for that shit. 160 00:06:42,551 --> 00:06:44,758 -Well, I can go either way on that one 161 00:06:44,862 --> 00:06:46,655 'cause I love "Hostel" and I think -- 162 00:06:46,758 --> 00:06:48,413 -I do, too. -That's a slow burn. 163 00:06:48,517 --> 00:06:52,517 I think it goes like 45 minutes before that first kill. 164 00:06:52,620 --> 00:06:54,206 -"Hostel" is the rare exception, 165 00:06:54,310 --> 00:06:56,103 where the payoff is worth the build-up. 166 00:06:56,206 --> 00:06:57,275 -And the build-up's fine. -Okay, well, that's what 167 00:06:57,379 --> 00:06:58,620 a slow burn should do. Okay. 168 00:06:58,724 --> 00:07:02,896 Moving on to number 4. 169 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,965 "Oh, that's just a cheap jump scare." 170 00:07:06,068 --> 00:07:07,344 -Oh, Lordy. 171 00:07:07,448 --> 00:07:10,724 -Okay, here's my quick defense of the jump scare. 172 00:07:10,827 --> 00:07:14,689 When you're already scared or nervous or on edge, 173 00:07:14,793 --> 00:07:16,586 you're walking through a dark room, 174 00:07:16,689 --> 00:07:19,862 you're doing anything, really, 175 00:07:19,965 --> 00:07:23,034 the slightest random thing will make you jump. 176 00:07:23,137 --> 00:07:25,137 And so that's normally what a jump scare does. 177 00:07:25,241 --> 00:07:29,344 It takes advantage of a situation that is already scary. 178 00:07:29,448 --> 00:07:31,034 -Agreed. -Okay. 179 00:07:31,137 --> 00:07:35,655 Number 3 on our horror fistfight list. 180 00:07:35,758 --> 00:07:37,103 Whoa. -Whoops. 181 00:07:37,206 --> 00:07:38,586 Almost got number 2... -Spoilers. 182 00:07:38,689 --> 00:07:42,551 -...revealed there. Number 3 is "CGI sucks." 183 00:07:42,655 --> 00:07:44,206 -That is a big one for sure. -Yeah. 184 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:46,793 Practical effects are always better. 185 00:07:46,896 --> 00:07:48,448 You know, I'm not going to get into that 186 00:07:48,551 --> 00:07:50,448 except to say there are certain things 187 00:07:50,551 --> 00:07:53,034 that cannot be done in any way other than visual effects. 188 00:07:53,137 --> 00:07:54,862 You can either use CGI 189 00:07:54,965 --> 00:07:57,482 or just not have those things in your movie. 190 00:07:57,586 --> 00:08:00,000 So, and I'm not sure I want to live in a world 191 00:08:00,103 --> 00:08:01,931 without "Sharknado," you know? 192 00:08:02,034 --> 00:08:07,241 So moving on quickly to numero two-o, 193 00:08:07,344 --> 00:08:09,000 how is it possible? 194 00:08:09,103 --> 00:08:12,137 Now, this is a timeline fight. 195 00:08:12,241 --> 00:08:15,172 Well, how can she possibly be alive in part four? 196 00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:16,931 Didn't she die in part three? 197 00:08:17,034 --> 00:08:20,068 And why is his hand working in part three, 198 00:08:20,172 --> 00:08:22,517 when his hand was damaged in part two? 199 00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:26,724 And it doesn't matter how many times the filmmaker says, 200 00:08:26,827 --> 00:08:29,413 "Well, I'm working from an alternate timeline 201 00:08:29,517 --> 00:08:32,172 that starts one day after the original." 202 00:08:32,275 --> 00:08:34,275 You know, there's still going to be people who are going to say, 203 00:08:34,379 --> 00:08:37,689 hey, you're screwing with the reality of the story. 204 00:08:37,793 --> 00:08:41,379 And, um, probably the worst one, I will admit this, 205 00:08:41,482 --> 00:08:44,103 is "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre" franchise. 206 00:08:44,206 --> 00:08:48,137 I mean, nine movies, six timelines, uh, madness. 207 00:08:48,241 --> 00:08:50,310 But what is your feeling on timelines? 208 00:08:50,413 --> 00:08:53,448 -Oh, timelines need to be respected. 209 00:08:53,551 --> 00:08:55,275 David Gordon Green, I'm looking at you. 210 00:08:55,379 --> 00:08:57,965 You can't just ignore seven movies of lore 211 00:08:58,068 --> 00:08:59,137 to start your own shit. That's nonsense. 212 00:08:59,241 --> 00:09:01,034 -On "Halloween?" -"Halloween." 213 00:09:01,137 --> 00:09:03,034 Yeah, but they're not brother and sister anymore. 214 00:09:03,137 --> 00:09:05,344 - Fuck that shit. - Okay. 215 00:09:05,448 --> 00:09:07,793 I sort of agree with you on that one. 216 00:09:07,896 --> 00:09:10,586 And finally, this is a biggie, 217 00:09:10,689 --> 00:09:12,034 and this is the one we're going to deal with 218 00:09:12,137 --> 00:09:14,551 in tonight's double feature. 219 00:09:15,862 --> 00:09:18,241 Actually, this is the number one reason 220 00:09:18,344 --> 00:09:20,620 horror fans get into fistfights. 221 00:09:20,724 --> 00:09:24,586 No, that one is better. No, that one was first. 222 00:09:24,689 --> 00:09:27,103 That's not the first one. That other one was first. 223 00:09:27,206 --> 00:09:29,517 1906 there was one. 224 00:09:29,620 --> 00:09:32,000 That's -- That's more influential. 225 00:09:32,103 --> 00:09:34,137 This one is more influential than that one. 226 00:09:34,241 --> 00:09:37,586 What's the first important horror flick, you know? 227 00:09:37,689 --> 00:09:40,103 What's the best silent horror film? 228 00:09:40,206 --> 00:09:43,482 What's the most influential silent horror film? 229 00:09:43,586 --> 00:09:45,724 Is the Universal version better than the Hammer version? 230 00:09:45,827 --> 00:09:47,482 Well, of course it is. You know? 231 00:09:47,586 --> 00:09:49,379 These discussions are endless. 232 00:09:49,482 --> 00:09:52,000 But tonight on "The Last Drive-In," 233 00:09:52,103 --> 00:09:54,517 we're going to settle one of those discussions for all time. 234 00:09:54,620 --> 00:09:58,137 And we have picked one of the nerdiest arguments of them all, 235 00:09:58,241 --> 00:09:59,379 and it's this. 236 00:09:59,482 --> 00:10:01,275 What's the first giallo? 237 00:10:01,379 --> 00:10:03,000 Giallo being, of course, 238 00:10:03,103 --> 00:10:05,034 that strangest of genres, 239 00:10:05,137 --> 00:10:07,379 the Italian mystery thriller movie made between the 1960s 240 00:10:07,482 --> 00:10:11,379 and the 1990s, and to settle that issue for all time, 241 00:10:11,482 --> 00:10:13,344 we have two candidates. 242 00:10:13,448 --> 00:10:17,275 Was it Mario Bava's "Blood and Black Lace" in 1964, 243 00:10:17,379 --> 00:10:18,827 or was it Dario Argento's 244 00:10:18,931 --> 00:10:21,551 "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" in 1970? 245 00:10:21,655 --> 00:10:24,379 And to make sure we arrive at the correct conclusion, 246 00:10:24,482 --> 00:10:27,896 we have the four smartest and most well-informed 247 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,103 horror authorities in the world here with us tonight. 248 00:10:32,206 --> 00:10:33,931 And two of them are Team Bava, 249 00:10:34,034 --> 00:10:35,965 and two of them are Team Argento. 250 00:10:36,068 --> 00:10:39,137 And they're going to duke it out right here in this trailer park. 251 00:10:39,241 --> 00:10:41,068 And Darcy, you'll be keeping score 252 00:10:41,172 --> 00:10:43,000 so that there's no funny business. 253 00:10:43,103 --> 00:10:46,172 And our result will be strictly scientific according 254 00:10:46,275 --> 00:10:48,034 to who makes the best arguments, 255 00:10:48,137 --> 00:10:51,379 as determined by myself, Darcy and the audience at large. 256 00:10:51,482 --> 00:10:55,241 And we're calling it Battle for the Black Glove. 257 00:10:55,344 --> 00:10:56,517 -Alright, this is going to be cool. 258 00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:57,896 -Or it's going to be a complete failure. 259 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,344 We don't know which, but we'll see. 260 00:10:59,448 --> 00:11:01,482 -Try to be positive. -Alright. 261 00:11:01,586 --> 00:11:04,103 I'll be bringing out our contestants at the first break. 262 00:11:04,206 --> 00:11:06,586 But first, I want to introduce our opening movie, 263 00:11:06,689 --> 00:11:08,620 "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage." 264 00:11:08,724 --> 00:11:10,862 It's the sensitive story of an American novelist 265 00:11:10,965 --> 00:11:13,137 who witnesses an attempted murder at an art gallery 266 00:11:13,241 --> 00:11:16,310 and becomes the target of a black-gloved killer 267 00:11:16,413 --> 00:11:19,896 in the body count movie that launched Dario Argento's career. 268 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,896 Sure, we've seen it before, 269 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,724 but have we seen it with a title about a mythical creature 270 00:11:24,827 --> 00:11:26,758 that has nothing to do with the plot? 271 00:11:26,862 --> 00:11:28,034 I think not. 272 00:11:28,137 --> 00:11:29,586 And those "Drive-In" totals are... 273 00:11:29,689 --> 00:11:32,413 six dead bodies, three off camera dead bodies, 274 00:11:32,517 --> 00:11:34,344 two breasts, one bloody glove, 275 00:11:34,448 --> 00:11:35,758 one hit-and-run, 276 00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:38,206 extended chase scene through a bus storage yard, 277 00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:40,413 attempted meat-cleaver decapitation, 278 00:11:40,517 --> 00:11:43,655 straight-razor slashing, POV window plunge, 279 00:11:43,758 --> 00:11:46,724 neck-targeted karate chop, stalking, stabbing, 280 00:11:46,827 --> 00:11:50,034 panty slicing, gratuitous "CSI: Italy," 281 00:11:50,137 --> 00:11:52,034 cosmic art sculpture fu. 282 00:11:52,137 --> 00:11:54,724 "Drive-In" Academy Award nominations for Tony Musante 283 00:11:54,827 --> 00:11:57,344 as the befuddled novelist for saying, 284 00:11:57,448 --> 00:11:59,103 "I can hear him saying it now. 285 00:11:59,206 --> 00:12:01,068 Go to Italy. It's a peaceful country. 286 00:12:01,172 --> 00:12:02,655 Nothing ever happens there." 287 00:12:02,758 --> 00:12:05,172 Enrico Maria Salerno as the inspector 288 00:12:05,275 --> 00:12:07,586 for saying, "Bring in the perverts." 289 00:12:07,689 --> 00:12:09,413 Suzy Kendall as the girlfriend 290 00:12:09,517 --> 00:12:12,689 for saying, "It gives me the shivers." 291 00:12:12,793 --> 00:12:15,931 Eva Renzi as the traumatized wife of the gallery owner 292 00:12:16,034 --> 00:12:18,724 for saying, "It isn't right to trick the public." 293 00:12:18,827 --> 00:12:20,758 And Dario Argento, the writer/director 294 00:12:20,862 --> 00:12:23,551 for doing things the Italian drive-in way, 295 00:12:23,655 --> 00:12:25,724 even though Italy doesn't have drive-ins. 296 00:12:25,827 --> 00:12:27,103 Four stars. 297 00:12:27,206 --> 00:12:29,310 Joe Bob says check it out. 298 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,034 -I feel like you laid it on pretty thick about those contestants. 299 00:12:33,137 --> 00:12:35,068 -Yes, I did. 300 00:12:35,172 --> 00:12:38,206 It's because it's the four smartest people in the world. 301 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:39,310 -Okay. 302 00:12:39,413 --> 00:12:41,310 -They all wanted to be on our show, 303 00:12:41,413 --> 00:12:43,344 four smartest people in the world. 304 00:12:43,448 --> 00:12:46,413 -Do you maybe mean the four most well informed about horror? 305 00:12:46,517 --> 00:12:49,689 -Yes, and that means they're the smartest people in the world. 306 00:12:49,793 --> 00:12:51,689 -Okay. It feels a little extreme. 307 00:12:51,793 --> 00:12:53,344 -No, it's not extreme, Darcy. 308 00:12:53,448 --> 00:12:55,137 The four smartest people on the planet 309 00:12:55,241 --> 00:12:58,103 will be debating the giallo question on this show, 310 00:12:58,206 --> 00:12:59,448 beginning at the first break. 311 00:12:59,551 --> 00:13:00,758 -Let's do it. 312 00:15:36,482 --> 00:15:38,344 -Il Giorno, please. 313 00:15:38,448 --> 00:15:40,137 Thanks. 314 00:15:40,241 --> 00:15:42,068 Aha. 315 00:15:42,758 --> 00:15:45,310 Ah. Usual garbage. 316 00:15:48,034 --> 00:15:49,931 -Come on, Carlo. We'll be late. 317 00:15:50,034 --> 00:15:52,965 -Relax. They will wait. 318 00:15:53,068 --> 00:15:54,931 I forgot to tell you that the thing you wrote 319 00:15:55,034 --> 00:15:56,517 has been a great success with the experts, you know? 320 00:15:56,620 --> 00:15:58,172 -I'm glad they're happy. 321 00:15:58,275 --> 00:16:02,655 Sam Dalmas, great hope of American literature, 322 00:16:02,758 --> 00:16:06,000 now writing manuals on the preservation of rare birds. 323 00:16:06,103 --> 00:16:07,724 -It'll be funny if I won a prize for it. 324 00:16:07,827 --> 00:16:10,862 -How is Julia? -Oh, fine. 325 00:16:10,965 --> 00:16:12,551 She's out of town on a modeling job. 326 00:16:12,655 --> 00:16:13,586 -Ah. 327 00:16:13,689 --> 00:16:14,758 -I think she'll be back tonight. 328 00:16:14,862 --> 00:16:18,275 -How are things going? -Oh, very well. 329 00:16:18,379 --> 00:16:20,275 Taking her back to the States with me, day after tomorrow. 330 00:16:20,379 --> 00:16:22,344 -Really serious, eh? -Looks like it. 331 00:16:22,448 --> 00:16:23,827 -Morning, Professor. -Morning. 332 00:16:23,931 --> 00:16:25,586 -You know, the first thing I'm going to do when I get home 333 00:16:25,689 --> 00:16:28,655 is to look up a friend of mine to return a favor. 334 00:16:28,758 --> 00:16:30,758 I was going through a kind of bad period. 335 00:16:30,862 --> 00:16:32,931 A little short on inspiration. "Go to Italy," he said, 336 00:16:33,034 --> 00:16:34,241 waxing poetic. 337 00:16:34,344 --> 00:16:36,896 "You need peace, tranquility. That's Italy. 338 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,206 Inspiration will come to you. Nothing ever happens in Italy." 339 00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:43,241 May he roast in hell! -Ha, ha! 340 00:16:43,344 --> 00:16:47,172 -So, I came. I believed him. 341 00:16:47,275 --> 00:16:50,034 Toured the country. Saw all the monuments. 342 00:16:50,137 --> 00:16:53,344 Then spaghetti, wine, the atmosphere. 343 00:16:53,448 --> 00:16:55,551 Great. Only I'm dead broke. 344 00:16:55,655 --> 00:16:58,724 I haven't written a line in two years. 345 00:16:58,827 --> 00:17:00,793 Wouldn't even have the plane fare home 346 00:17:00,896 --> 00:17:02,068 if you hadn't come along with this job. 347 00:17:02,172 --> 00:17:04,448 Which you carried out beautifully. 348 00:17:04,551 --> 00:17:06,793 -Here is your check, Mr. Dalmas. 349 00:17:06,896 --> 00:17:08,724 -Hm. 350 00:17:11,137 --> 00:17:15,827 -But, hey, Sam. Don't you want a copy? 351 00:17:15,931 --> 00:17:18,241 -Who needs it? I have this. 352 00:18:21,965 --> 00:18:24,931 - Hey, hey! - Open the door. 353 00:18:29,482 --> 00:18:31,931 Hey, hey! 354 00:18:49,448 --> 00:18:51,758 -How do I open the door? 355 00:18:59,379 --> 00:19:01,862 -I can't get in. 356 00:19:01,965 --> 00:19:04,034 How do I open the door? 357 00:19:09,206 --> 00:19:11,310 Hang on. Just hang on! 358 00:19:15,517 --> 00:19:17,310 Open the door. 359 00:19:17,413 --> 00:19:20,103 Open the door! 360 00:19:20,206 --> 00:19:22,137 Call the police! 361 00:19:28,655 --> 00:19:31,310 I called the police. 362 00:21:06,068 --> 00:21:10,689 -Her pulse is weak but it wouldn't appear to be serious. She hasn't lost too much blood. 363 00:21:12,172 --> 00:21:14,517 Okay, get on with it. 364 00:21:14,620 --> 00:21:16,827 -Yes, sir. Check for fingerprints. 365 00:21:16,931 --> 00:21:18,758 -Okay. 366 00:21:23,344 --> 00:21:26,000 -Good evening. 367 00:21:26,103 --> 00:21:28,344 I'm Inspector Morosini. 368 00:21:28,448 --> 00:21:29,793 Tell me about it, eh? 369 00:21:29,896 --> 00:21:32,034 -What's that? -What happened? 370 00:21:32,137 --> 00:21:34,862 I want to know everything you saw and heard. Everything. 371 00:21:34,965 --> 00:21:37,413 -How is she? -Oh, she'll be all right. 372 00:21:37,517 --> 00:21:40,379 Thanks to you. Oh, what's your name? 373 00:21:40,482 --> 00:21:42,000 -Sam Dalmas. -Are you English? 374 00:21:42,103 --> 00:21:44,344 -No, I'm an American. I was on my way home. 375 00:21:44,448 --> 00:21:46,827 I was walking in front of the gallery and I saw these lights. 376 00:21:46,931 --> 00:21:49,344 I looked up here and I saw these two figures struggling. 377 00:21:50,517 --> 00:21:52,793 -Put her down carefully. 378 00:21:55,379 --> 00:21:57,931 -Poor thing, she was... -Where were the police? 379 00:21:58,034 --> 00:22:01,068 -Let me through. I'm the owner of the gallery. 380 00:22:02,586 --> 00:22:04,000 Monica! 381 00:22:04,103 --> 00:22:05,344 -See... 382 00:22:05,448 --> 00:22:07,517 -Monica. 383 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,103 Monica. 384 00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:15,172 What happened? 385 00:22:15,275 --> 00:22:16,448 -She's in no state for questions. 386 00:22:16,551 --> 00:22:18,517 I'd leave her alone. -Is it serious? 387 00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:20,034 -No, no. It's nothing serious. 388 00:22:20,137 --> 00:22:23,448 A flesh wound. -Come on now, come along. 389 00:22:23,551 --> 00:22:25,724 -Let go of me! I'm Alberto Ranieri. 390 00:22:25,827 --> 00:22:27,965 She's my wife. 391 00:22:28,068 --> 00:22:29,482 -Excuse me. 392 00:22:29,586 --> 00:22:31,896 -Monica, speak to me. What happened? 393 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,862 -Please, you're tiring her. -Monica, dear. 394 00:22:34,965 --> 00:22:38,551 Who did it? Who? -We don't know. 395 00:22:38,655 --> 00:22:42,241 I hope your wife may be able to tell us. 396 00:22:42,344 --> 00:22:43,724 -Right, we'll go. 397 00:22:43,827 --> 00:22:45,137 -What was she doing here in the gallery 398 00:22:45,241 --> 00:22:47,620 at this time of night? 399 00:22:47,724 --> 00:22:51,793 -Oh, um, she was going over the books. 400 00:22:51,896 --> 00:22:54,689 I, um, I was supposed to pick her up. 401 00:22:54,793 --> 00:22:55,931 -Mm-hmm. 402 00:22:57,896 --> 00:23:00,103 -Monica, Monica! 403 00:23:00,206 --> 00:23:02,241 -Go ahead. 404 00:23:02,344 --> 00:23:04,448 -Come on now, stand back. Let the stretcher through. 405 00:23:04,551 --> 00:23:07,000 -Poor girl. 406 00:23:09,827 --> 00:23:12,034 -Stand back there, please. Stand back now. 407 00:23:12,137 --> 00:23:13,655 -Right, that's it. 408 00:23:13,758 --> 00:23:16,241 -Now, where were we, eh? 409 00:23:16,344 --> 00:23:19,241 -There was something wrong with that scene. 410 00:23:19,344 --> 00:23:21,137 Something odd. 411 00:23:22,275 --> 00:23:23,724 I can't pin it down 412 00:23:23,827 --> 00:23:27,137 but I have a feeling that something didn't fit. 413 00:23:27,241 --> 00:23:30,103 -Well, think about it. Try to isolate it. 414 00:23:30,206 --> 00:23:33,000 -I've tried. I can't pin it down. 415 00:23:33,103 --> 00:23:35,862 Let's see if I can help. 416 00:23:35,965 --> 00:23:38,862 You saw someone run out of this door. 417 00:23:38,965 --> 00:23:41,448 -Yeah, but it was so dark under here. 418 00:23:41,551 --> 00:23:45,344 The door was almost -- -Don't touch anything. 419 00:23:45,448 --> 00:23:48,172 Try keeping your hands in your pockets. 420 00:23:48,275 --> 00:23:51,172 It's the only way to avoid temptation. 421 00:23:51,275 --> 00:23:53,275 It saves a lot of time and trouble. 422 00:23:53,379 --> 00:23:56,000 -And on the mezzanine was noted a statue of a warrior, 423 00:23:56,103 --> 00:23:58,034 bronze, on the wall, 424 00:23:58,137 --> 00:24:01,862 and a sculpture resembling a branch of a petrified tree. 425 00:24:01,965 --> 00:24:03,689 On the ground floor, 426 00:24:03,793 --> 00:24:05,206 an irregular trail of blood stains 427 00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:07,862 from the service door at the rear 428 00:24:07,965 --> 00:24:12,689 to within 10 feet of the front window. 429 00:24:12,793 --> 00:24:15,896 Apart from the blood, there is no other sign of a struggle. 430 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,896 You got that? -Right. 431 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,413 -Okay. -According to you, 432 00:24:18,517 --> 00:24:20,000 she came down these stairs. 433 00:24:20,103 --> 00:24:21,586 -Not according to me, she did. 434 00:24:21,689 --> 00:24:22,931 -In all 39 features. 435 00:24:24,689 --> 00:24:27,344 Now, we'll measure from the window to the stairs. 436 00:24:49,068 --> 00:24:50,241 -Blood. 437 00:24:50,344 --> 00:24:52,586 -Look, I've had it. I can't take anymore. 438 00:24:54,758 --> 00:24:58,068 We've been through the whole damn thing six times. 439 00:25:00,172 --> 00:25:04,413 Look, I've told you everything. Every detail. 440 00:25:04,517 --> 00:25:08,172 I don't know that woman. I've never seen her before. 441 00:25:09,206 --> 00:25:11,206 -Now look, let's start over again. 442 00:25:11,310 --> 00:25:13,310 Maybe there's a detail you've forgotten. 443 00:25:13,413 --> 00:25:15,620 Suppose we go back to the strange figure 444 00:25:15,724 --> 00:25:17,517 you saw running away. Describe it. 445 00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:19,448 -I told you it was dark. 446 00:25:19,551 --> 00:25:22,586 I was too far away. It was nothing but a dark figure. 447 00:25:22,689 --> 00:25:24,344 Look, I'm tired. 448 00:25:24,448 --> 00:25:26,137 I'm leaving for the United States the day after tomorrow 449 00:25:26,241 --> 00:25:27,896 and I got a million things to do. 450 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,448 -Really, have you made a reservation? 451 00:25:29,551 --> 00:25:31,862 -Yes. -Mm-hmm. 452 00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:34,965 Have you your passport on you? -Yeah. 453 00:25:35,068 --> 00:25:37,689 -May I have a look at it a moment? 454 00:25:37,793 --> 00:25:39,034 -Yes. 455 00:25:42,344 --> 00:25:44,172 -Thank you. 456 00:25:50,793 --> 00:25:52,931 -Hey. -Hey, what? 457 00:25:53,034 --> 00:25:54,413 -My passport. 458 00:25:54,517 --> 00:25:57,137 -Oh, we'll take care of it for a while. 459 00:25:57,241 --> 00:25:59,586 -You're kidding. I can't move without it. 460 00:25:59,689 --> 00:26:01,068 -We don't want you to. 461 00:26:01,172 --> 00:26:03,827 You're too important to us as a witness. 462 00:26:03,931 --> 00:26:05,931 You saw something which, though you can't recall it, 463 00:26:06,034 --> 00:26:08,068 is, on your own admission, clearly vital. 464 00:26:08,172 --> 00:26:10,241 And until this point is cleared up, 465 00:26:10,344 --> 00:26:11,482 I can't allow you to leave. 466 00:26:11,586 --> 00:26:13,413 -Hey now, look. I don't mind coming down here -- 467 00:26:13,517 --> 00:26:15,137 -What you may not know, Mr. Dalmas, 468 00:26:15,241 --> 00:26:17,068 is that in this city during the past month 469 00:26:17,172 --> 00:26:20,724 there have been three as yet unexplained murders. 470 00:26:20,827 --> 00:26:22,931 The victim in each case was a woman. 471 00:26:23,034 --> 00:26:24,551 Three crimes all committed 472 00:26:24,655 --> 00:26:27,344 without any apparent motive whatsoever. 473 00:26:27,448 --> 00:26:30,655 It seems very clear to me that there is a dangerous maniac 474 00:26:30,758 --> 00:26:33,344 at large in this city. 475 00:26:33,448 --> 00:26:34,827 But what makes the investigations 476 00:26:34,931 --> 00:26:37,689 particularly difficult as far as we're concerned, 477 00:26:37,793 --> 00:26:41,137 and it's for this reason that we require your cooperation, 478 00:26:41,241 --> 00:26:43,103 is that I'm fairly certain this man is, 479 00:26:43,206 --> 00:26:45,620 as far as his appearance goes, 480 00:26:45,724 --> 00:26:47,655 quite sane. 481 00:26:47,758 --> 00:26:51,034 In his daily life, he is completely normal. 482 00:26:51,137 --> 00:26:55,103 Like anybody else. Even like you. 483 00:26:55,206 --> 00:26:57,448 -Me? -Why, yes. You. Why not? 484 00:26:58,310 --> 00:27:01,344 Let's suppose you are insane. 485 00:27:01,448 --> 00:27:04,206 You entered the gallery and you attacked the woman. 486 00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:06,758 Then when you tried to escape, 487 00:27:06,862 --> 00:27:09,827 you were accidentally trapped between the glass doors. 488 00:27:10,793 --> 00:27:13,172 -You're out of your mind. 489 00:27:13,275 --> 00:27:15,034 You can't just grab a foreign citizen 490 00:27:15,137 --> 00:27:16,551 and accuse him of murder. 491 00:27:16,655 --> 00:27:17,862 -No one's accusing you. 492 00:27:17,965 --> 00:27:19,241 -You're giving me the third degree. 493 00:27:19,344 --> 00:27:22,551 It's illegal. I want to call my consulate right now. 494 00:27:23,827 --> 00:27:25,827 -Go ahead. 495 00:27:25,931 --> 00:27:27,172 Call anyone you want. 496 00:27:27,275 --> 00:27:29,862 Call the President of the United States. 497 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,620 -A tough nut, eh? 498 00:27:32,724 --> 00:27:33,724 -Ah, just... 499 00:27:33,827 --> 00:27:35,689 -Here's a copy of Monti's report. 500 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,586 -Erm, TWA, I want to cancel a reservation. 501 00:27:48,689 --> 00:27:51,206 Sam Dalmas. 502 00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:55,172 Erm, number 112. New York, day after tomorrow. 503 00:27:57,827 --> 00:27:59,793 Yeah, thank you. 504 00:28:57,137 --> 00:28:58,620 -Look out behind! 505 00:29:11,586 --> 00:29:13,724 Are you hurt or anything? 506 00:29:13,827 --> 00:29:15,241 - Can I help you? - No, no, no. 507 00:29:15,551 --> 00:29:18,172 Don't worry, I'm okay. Thank you. 508 00:29:28,586 --> 00:29:32,344 -Well, that's the most enthusiastic welcome 509 00:29:32,448 --> 00:29:33,586 I've ever had. 510 00:29:34,965 --> 00:29:39,655 Hey, it's been a month now. -Mm. 511 00:29:42,206 --> 00:29:44,724 Had a hard day at the office, dear? 512 00:29:46,896 --> 00:29:48,482 No. 513 00:29:49,862 --> 00:29:52,275 No, I just... 514 00:29:52,379 --> 00:29:55,413 I just witnessed an attempted homicide. 515 00:29:55,517 --> 00:29:58,827 Was given the third degree by the police. 516 00:30:00,551 --> 00:30:04,517 Had my passport confiscated so now we can't leave. 517 00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:08,413 And just now I my head nearly decapitated 518 00:30:08,517 --> 00:30:10,448 by a meat cleaver. 519 00:30:13,206 --> 00:30:16,482 You know, the usual. 520 00:30:18,068 --> 00:30:21,655 -Sure, now you just tell me all about it. 521 00:30:25,965 --> 00:30:27,896 -Funny thing is, it's the truth. 522 00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:27,793 -In the beginning, darkness. 523 00:31:27,896 --> 00:31:33,275 Until two faces of fear saw all the colors of the dark. 524 00:31:33,379 --> 00:31:36,896 Dario Argento, Mario Bava, 525 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,758 two men casting a bloodstained shadow 526 00:31:39,862 --> 00:31:43,241 as they force their fatal frames on the silver screen. 527 00:31:43,344 --> 00:31:45,965 Let's get ready to giallo. 528 00:31:46,068 --> 00:31:48,310 -Welcome to a night of Violence 529 00:31:48,413 --> 00:31:53,586 as two of the giants of giallo paint the town deep red. 530 00:31:53,689 --> 00:31:56,482 This is the "Battle for the Black Glove." 531 00:32:02,206 --> 00:32:03,896 -And so I think we would all agree 532 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,758 that in the first few minutes of "The Bird 533 00:32:05,862 --> 00:32:07,620 with the Crystal Plumage," we have quite a few 534 00:32:07,724 --> 00:32:09,551 of the essential elements of the giallo. 535 00:32:09,655 --> 00:32:11,517 We have an exotic location. 536 00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:14,379 We have a foreigner trying to figure out the locals. 537 00:32:14,482 --> 00:32:17,482 We have a beautiful setting, 538 00:32:17,586 --> 00:32:20,275 namely that weird art gallery with the fishbowl doors. 539 00:32:20,379 --> 00:32:22,379 And we have two attempted murders. 540 00:32:22,482 --> 00:32:24,241 We have a black-gloved killer. 541 00:32:24,344 --> 00:32:27,655 We have a skeptical but boring police detective. 542 00:32:27,758 --> 00:32:29,241 And of course, we have beautiful women, 543 00:32:29,344 --> 00:32:31,137 including Suzy Kendall as Julia, 544 00:32:31,241 --> 00:32:35,724 the girlfriend and Eva Renzi as the injured victim. 545 00:32:35,827 --> 00:32:38,000 Plus, the unconventional musical score 546 00:32:38,103 --> 00:32:40,689 by the great Ennio Morricone and vivid, 547 00:32:40,793 --> 00:32:44,000 lush cinematography by Vittorio Storaro, 548 00:32:44,103 --> 00:32:46,793 who would go on to be a three-time Oscar winner. 549 00:32:46,896 --> 00:32:48,862 But why should I be talking about it 550 00:32:48,965 --> 00:32:52,448 when we have the four greatest giallo authorities in the world 551 00:32:52,551 --> 00:32:54,413 waiting just off camera here? 552 00:32:54,517 --> 00:32:58,724 So let's line them up for the "Battle for the Black Glove." 553 00:32:58,827 --> 00:33:00,655 We're going to decide tonight. 554 00:33:00,758 --> 00:33:03,000 Yeah, we are going to decide tonight 555 00:33:03,103 --> 00:33:06,310 the question that has split apart horror fans for years, 556 00:33:06,413 --> 00:33:10,655 and that is who is responsible for the giallo craze in Italy. 557 00:33:10,758 --> 00:33:14,931 Was it Mario Bava or was it Dario Argento? 558 00:33:15,034 --> 00:33:17,206 -Whoo! -So, going in alphabetical 559 00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:20,103 order, please welcome Claire Donner. 560 00:33:22,241 --> 00:33:23,586 -Yeah, Yeah, yeah! 561 00:33:23,689 --> 00:33:25,379 -Troy Howarth. 562 00:33:27,862 --> 00:33:29,586 Lars Nilsen. 563 00:33:31,482 --> 00:33:33,344 And Sam Zimmerman. 564 00:33:35,137 --> 00:33:37,275 Alright, Claire, I'm going to start with you. 565 00:33:37,379 --> 00:33:39,103 You are the New York City director 566 00:33:39,206 --> 00:33:42,206 of the Miskatonic Institute of Horror Studies. 567 00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:44,000 You are an art historian. 568 00:33:44,103 --> 00:33:46,448 You write extensively about horror media. 569 00:33:46,551 --> 00:33:48,689 You list as your special areas of expertise, 570 00:33:48,793 --> 00:33:53,275 and I love this gore, pornography and cannibalism. 571 00:33:53,379 --> 00:33:57,000 And you write those extensive novel-length little booklets 572 00:33:57,103 --> 00:33:59,862 that are included whenever Severin releases a new Blu-ray. 573 00:33:59,965 --> 00:34:03,310 So please declare your loyalty. 574 00:34:03,413 --> 00:34:05,862 -Bird is the word, Joe Bob. 575 00:34:05,965 --> 00:34:07,793 -Team Argento? -Yes. 576 00:34:07,896 --> 00:34:11,310 -Okay. -It is simply the first 577 00:34:11,413 --> 00:34:15,413 cohesive, unique giallo film. 578 00:34:15,517 --> 00:34:16,931 -I maybe... -Okay. 579 00:34:17,034 --> 00:34:18,137 -Oh. -Save it for just 580 00:34:18,241 --> 00:34:19,482 a minute, Claire. 581 00:34:19,586 --> 00:34:22,137 I know, I know you're -- I know your Team Argento, 582 00:34:22,241 --> 00:34:23,793 but I have to ask you, since you're -- 583 00:34:23,896 --> 00:34:28,896 since you're an expert in gore and cannibalism. 584 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,482 The turtle scene in "Cannibal Holocaust." 585 00:34:31,586 --> 00:34:34,103 Yes or no? This is a big issue here. 586 00:34:34,206 --> 00:34:35,931 -Yes or no? What kind -- That's not a question. 587 00:34:36,034 --> 00:34:37,344 -The turtle scene. -What does that mean? 588 00:34:37,448 --> 00:34:39,482 -Yes or no? -What am I...? 589 00:34:39,586 --> 00:34:41,172 -Ruggero Deodato? -What am I answering? 590 00:34:42,793 --> 00:34:44,758 -I'm not totally sure what the question is. 591 00:34:44,862 --> 00:34:47,310 -The question is, should he have done the turtle scene? 592 00:34:47,413 --> 00:34:48,586 -Oh, Jesus. 593 00:34:48,689 --> 00:34:51,344 I mean, I don't think 594 00:34:51,448 --> 00:34:52,896 you should vivisect a turtle. 595 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,344 -Okay. -I do think that the things 596 00:34:56,448 --> 00:34:59,689 that go on in that movie are what make it what it is. 597 00:34:59,793 --> 00:35:01,103 And we have to deal with this now. 598 00:35:01,206 --> 00:35:02,862 You know, if I could get into a time machine 599 00:35:02,965 --> 00:35:05,862 and go back and save the turtle, would I do that? 600 00:35:05,965 --> 00:35:07,103 I don't really know. 601 00:35:07,206 --> 00:35:08,551 -Wait. You don't know? -You just said it, 602 00:35:08,655 --> 00:35:09,793 I'm an art historian, 603 00:35:09,896 --> 00:35:11,068 and I can't interfere with our history. 604 00:35:11,172 --> 00:35:12,827 Save the turtle. 605 00:35:12,931 --> 00:35:14,620 -How about the woman impaled on a stick? 606 00:35:14,724 --> 00:35:18,620 -I believe what has been said 607 00:35:18,724 --> 00:35:21,620 about her complicatedly sitting on a pike 608 00:35:21,724 --> 00:35:23,344 with like a bicycle seat 609 00:35:23,448 --> 00:35:25,275 and something coming out of her mouth. 610 00:35:25,379 --> 00:35:27,517 But like superstitiously, I think it's a dead body. 611 00:35:27,620 --> 00:35:29,068 -But as an image? 612 00:35:29,172 --> 00:35:31,068 -Astounding, indelible. -It's fine, it's fine, okay. 613 00:35:31,172 --> 00:35:32,620 -Yeah. -I had to ask 614 00:35:32,724 --> 00:35:34,655 because we get more complaints about the turtle than the woman. 615 00:35:34,758 --> 00:35:36,344 -That makes sense. 616 00:35:36,448 --> 00:35:38,103 -But I knew you would be Team Argento 617 00:35:38,206 --> 00:35:39,931 if for no other reason than you're the world's 618 00:35:40,034 --> 00:35:42,758 leading authority on the director, Michele Soavi, 619 00:35:42,862 --> 00:35:45,103 who was mentored by Argento. 620 00:35:45,206 --> 00:35:46,620 And, okay. 621 00:35:46,724 --> 00:35:50,275 Next up we have Troy Howarth. -Whoo! 622 00:35:50,379 --> 00:35:52,275 -And Troy currently holds the world record 623 00:35:52,379 --> 00:35:54,655 for the number of commentary tracks produced 624 00:35:54,758 --> 00:35:56,482 for European horror films. 625 00:35:56,586 --> 00:35:59,172 He has authored at least 11 books, 626 00:35:59,275 --> 00:36:02,724 at last count, including books on Mario Bava, 627 00:36:02,827 --> 00:36:06,000 Dario Argento, Lucio Fulci, Klaus Kinski, 628 00:36:06,103 --> 00:36:08,793 Paul Naschy, John Carpenter, 629 00:36:08,896 --> 00:36:12,517 and three volumes just on giallo films. 630 00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:15,103 All the way from Johnstown, Pennsylvania. 631 00:36:15,206 --> 00:36:18,000 All I can say, Troy, is that you are monstrously 632 00:36:18,103 --> 00:36:19,655 overqualified for this show. 633 00:36:19,758 --> 00:36:23,344 But please --- please just declare your loyalty. 634 00:36:23,448 --> 00:36:25,758 -Oh, Team Bava. Of course I'm saying. 635 00:36:25,862 --> 00:36:27,000 -Of course, Bava. -Ooh. 636 00:36:27,103 --> 00:36:28,862 -Okay, now, didn't you say at one point 637 00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:31,000 that it was Bava films that brought you to horror 638 00:36:31,103 --> 00:36:33,103 in the first place? -Yeah, I mean, 639 00:36:33,206 --> 00:36:35,482 he's definitely to Euro horror in particular. 640 00:36:35,586 --> 00:36:37,206 So yeah, definitely. 641 00:36:37,310 --> 00:36:38,689 -That's what got you started on horror? 642 00:36:38,793 --> 00:36:40,103 -Mm-hmm. -Alright. 643 00:36:41,724 --> 00:36:44,620 This next panelist I've known for years 644 00:36:44,724 --> 00:36:47,931 because he ran the weirder cult movie shows 645 00:36:48,034 --> 00:36:49,793 for Alamo Drafthouse, and in fact, 646 00:36:49,896 --> 00:36:52,241 he was the main curator for the original 647 00:36:52,344 --> 00:36:54,655 "Weird Wednesday" at the original Alamo Drafthouse 648 00:36:54,758 --> 00:36:56,413 in the '90s in Austin, 649 00:36:56,517 --> 00:36:59,379 a time when they would sometimes take 35mm reels 650 00:36:59,482 --> 00:37:01,931 out of film cans discovered in dusty warehouses 651 00:37:02,034 --> 00:37:05,206 and just run them for free for audiences that then rediscovered 652 00:37:05,310 --> 00:37:07,379 all these lost exploitation treasures 653 00:37:07,482 --> 00:37:09,517 from the '60s, '70s, '80s. 654 00:37:09,620 --> 00:37:12,068 Anyway, if you've ever been to any cult movie night 655 00:37:12,172 --> 00:37:14,137 in an indie theater, it owes a debt 656 00:37:14,241 --> 00:37:17,620 at some level to Lars Nilsen, who is at the present time -- 657 00:37:17,724 --> 00:37:20,103 -Whoo! -Yeah, at the present time, 658 00:37:20,206 --> 00:37:23,000 Lars is the programming director for the Austin Film Society. 659 00:37:23,103 --> 00:37:25,034 But more importantly, 660 00:37:25,137 --> 00:37:27,206 he has seen more exploitation movies than any man alive 661 00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:29,862 and could probably name every Argento and Bava 662 00:37:29,965 --> 00:37:32,827 movie in chronological order while high on marijuana. 663 00:37:32,931 --> 00:37:35,103 So welcome, Lars. -Thank you. Thank you. 664 00:37:35,206 --> 00:37:36,206 -Please declare your loyalty. 665 00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:37,724 -I'm going to -- I think I'm going to go 666 00:37:37,827 --> 00:37:39,724 with Team Bava here. -Okay. 667 00:37:39,827 --> 00:37:42,482 And didn't you say -- I want to mention your new book, 668 00:37:42,586 --> 00:37:45,517 Warped -- "Warped and Faded" is the name of your new book, 669 00:37:45,620 --> 00:37:47,724 which has some of the funniest and most trenchant 670 00:37:47,827 --> 00:37:49,413 reviews of horror films in it, 671 00:37:49,517 --> 00:37:51,172 as well as a history of "Weird Wednesday" 672 00:37:51,275 --> 00:37:53,793 in the American Genre Film Archive in Austin. 673 00:37:53,896 --> 00:37:55,586 And didn't you say at some point 674 00:37:55,689 --> 00:37:58,103 that you wrote reviews in a style intended 675 00:37:58,206 --> 00:38:01,310 to get the attention of people who were already high on weed? 676 00:38:01,413 --> 00:38:03,068 -Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 677 00:38:03,172 --> 00:38:04,931 Which is you have to do when you're in Austin. 678 00:38:05,034 --> 00:38:06,862 Okay. Alright. 679 00:38:06,965 --> 00:38:09,724 And rounding out our illustrious foursome, 680 00:38:09,827 --> 00:38:13,655 Sam Zimmerman, the curator for Shudder. 681 00:38:13,758 --> 00:38:16,344 Sam is personally acquainted with filmmakers 682 00:38:16,448 --> 00:38:18,137 and film distributors all over the world. 683 00:38:18,241 --> 00:38:19,931 He is -- He's actually, Sam, 684 00:38:20,034 --> 00:38:21,931 you are the first employee hired by Shudder 685 00:38:22,034 --> 00:38:24,000 I think 10 years ago... -Day one. 686 00:38:24,103 --> 00:38:26,137 ...after studying film at the State University 687 00:38:26,241 --> 00:38:27,586 of New York Purchase, which is known 688 00:38:27,689 --> 00:38:28,827 for its film program, 689 00:38:28,931 --> 00:38:30,758 and then you were working for Fangoria, 690 00:38:30,862 --> 00:38:33,413 and Sam is the guy who finds movies for this show 691 00:38:33,517 --> 00:38:35,413 as the head of programming 692 00:38:35,517 --> 00:38:37,551 and increasingly produces and executive produces movies 693 00:38:37,655 --> 00:38:39,034 that become Shudder Originals. 694 00:38:39,137 --> 00:38:41,793 So welcome, Sam, declare your loyalty. 695 00:38:41,896 --> 00:38:44,655 -It's crystal clear, Joe Bob. It's Argento. 696 00:38:44,758 --> 00:38:47,827 -It has to be Argento, great. And somehow I knew that, too. 697 00:38:47,931 --> 00:38:50,413 So we're going to get started with our, 698 00:38:50,517 --> 00:38:51,862 uh, debate at the next break, 699 00:38:51,965 --> 00:38:53,793 and I'll go over the rules 700 00:38:53,896 --> 00:38:56,137 and we'll start arguing as only horror fans can argue. 701 00:38:56,241 --> 00:38:59,517 But first, I want to get a quick one, two, three, 702 00:38:59,620 --> 00:39:02,000 four of why everybody on the panels 703 00:39:02,103 --> 00:39:05,034 thinks "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" matters. 704 00:39:05,137 --> 00:39:06,655 Claire, you go first. 705 00:39:06,758 --> 00:39:08,689 -Well, as I've said, 706 00:39:08,793 --> 00:39:12,620 and I will go on to prove, it is the first real giallo. 707 00:39:12,724 --> 00:39:15,620 I can maybe be strong-armed into admitting 708 00:39:15,724 --> 00:39:19,586 that Bava sort of developed most of the giallo ingredients, 709 00:39:19,689 --> 00:39:21,758 but Argento really put them together. 710 00:39:21,862 --> 00:39:24,000 Uh, that movie has influenced everybody, 711 00:39:24,103 --> 00:39:26,379 from John Carpenter to Brian De Palma 712 00:39:26,482 --> 00:39:28,206 to Pedro Almodóvar. 713 00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:31,482 Um, and I think it really cleverly addresses 714 00:39:31,586 --> 00:39:35,517 the actual force that caused the birth of the giallo 715 00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:38,206 in a way that I hope I will prove later. 716 00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:39,793 -Okay. -Yay! 717 00:39:39,896 --> 00:39:41,448 Very good summary. Troy. 718 00:39:41,551 --> 00:39:44,620 -Well, I'll just start by saying I disagree with that. 719 00:39:44,724 --> 00:39:47,000 Of course -- -Wow. Already. 720 00:39:47,103 --> 00:39:49,931 -It's just -- it simply is not true that it is the first. 721 00:39:50,034 --> 00:39:52,137 However, it is an important film 722 00:39:52,241 --> 00:39:55,551 because I think it can be proved fairly easily 723 00:39:55,655 --> 00:39:57,896 it's the one that really popularized the trend. 724 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,931 If we didn't have "Bird with the Crystal Plumage," 725 00:40:00,034 --> 00:40:02,896 we wouldn't have had all these other movies with exotic titles, 726 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,310 animals in the titles, et cetera, et cetera 727 00:40:05,413 --> 00:40:06,758 And it is the movie that brings in 728 00:40:06,862 --> 00:40:09,034 the primal trauma elements, 729 00:40:09,137 --> 00:40:11,310 the psychological dimension of the giallo. 730 00:40:11,413 --> 00:40:14,206 So yeah, I mean, it's got that going for it, 731 00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:15,551 but it's not the first. 732 00:40:15,655 --> 00:40:17,758 -Okay. Lars. -Yeah. 733 00:40:17,862 --> 00:40:20,517 I think anytime you've got a genre of anything, 734 00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:23,793 it starts off with a genius creating it, 735 00:40:23,896 --> 00:40:25,517 and then you're going to have popularizers. 736 00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:27,793 So what you really have in this case 737 00:40:27,896 --> 00:40:31,034 is Bava as a genius creating the giallo. 738 00:40:31,137 --> 00:40:34,241 And then Argento comes along and he refines it. 739 00:40:34,344 --> 00:40:37,241 He makes it a basic commodity, 740 00:40:37,344 --> 00:40:39,482 basically kind of a supermarket commodity, 741 00:40:39,586 --> 00:40:41,379 which he puts out there. 742 00:40:41,482 --> 00:40:44,620 And it becomes a huge hit because it's so basic 743 00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:46,379 that everyone of every intelligence level 744 00:40:46,482 --> 00:40:47,758 can kind of understand it. -Wow. 745 00:40:47,862 --> 00:40:49,034 -Oh. -Wow. 746 00:40:49,137 --> 00:40:50,517 -Supermarket commodity. 747 00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:52,896 Okay, Lars, that -- -That's serious. 748 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,310 -That phrase is gonna come back to haunt you. 749 00:40:54,413 --> 00:40:55,931 Okay. Sam. 750 00:40:56,034 --> 00:40:57,724 -Uh, I think it's foundational. 751 00:40:57,827 --> 00:40:59,724 It's -- It may not be the first giallo, 752 00:40:59,827 --> 00:41:01,931 but it is Argento's first giallo. 753 00:41:02,034 --> 00:41:06,103 And by nature of that, it is the master of the genre, 754 00:41:06,206 --> 00:41:07,965 one of the masters of Italian horror, 755 00:41:08,068 --> 00:41:09,931 putting his stamp on the thriller 756 00:41:10,034 --> 00:41:12,137 and helping to create the hallmarks and iconography 757 00:41:12,241 --> 00:41:14,068 of what that genre is. Okay. 758 00:41:14,172 --> 00:41:18,000 -And it has led to the best dressed team on the show. 759 00:41:18,103 --> 00:41:20,413 Whoo! 760 00:41:20,517 --> 00:41:24,758 -Okay, but was it the foundation film for the giallo? 761 00:41:24,862 --> 00:41:27,034 We will know the answer later tonight. 762 00:41:27,137 --> 00:41:29,413 We will have a winner. Back to the movie now. 763 00:41:29,517 --> 00:41:32,965 Get ready for the "Battle of the Black Glove." 764 00:41:33,068 --> 00:41:35,482 So roll the movie. 765 00:41:35,586 --> 00:41:39,275 And one reason we're doing this is that at some point, 766 00:41:39,379 --> 00:41:41,724 Dario Argento became annoyed 767 00:41:41,827 --> 00:41:43,793 that Mario Bava does get so much attention 768 00:41:43,896 --> 00:41:45,551 when people talk about the giallo. 769 00:41:45,655 --> 00:41:48,482 And he said, "Actually, Riccardo Freda had more 770 00:41:48,586 --> 00:41:51,448 influence on -- on the giallo than Bava did." 771 00:41:51,551 --> 00:41:55,862 And apparently he didn't note that Riccardo Freda's, 772 00:41:55,965 --> 00:41:57,793 two of Riccardo Freda's horror films 773 00:41:57,896 --> 00:41:59,724 were finished by Mario Bava. 774 00:41:59,827 --> 00:42:03,103 Frieda walked off the set, and two of them Bava completed. 775 00:42:03,206 --> 00:42:04,965 Am I right? I'm right about that, right? 776 00:42:05,068 --> 00:42:06,172 -You are right. -Alright. 777 00:42:06,275 --> 00:42:07,758 We will not be expanding the debate 778 00:42:07,862 --> 00:42:10,000 to include Riccardo Freda, okay? 779 00:42:10,103 --> 00:42:12,758 -What are we even doing then? -Okay. 780 00:42:12,862 --> 00:42:14,655 -Murder obsession notwithstanding. 781 00:42:14,758 --> 00:42:17,344 -But extra points for anybody who works 782 00:42:17,448 --> 00:42:20,275 "Theodora, the Slave Empress" into the discussion tonight. 783 00:42:20,379 --> 00:42:22,862 That's a Riccardo Freda film. -Mm-hmm. 784 00:42:33,862 --> 00:42:36,172 -Right, bring in the perverts. 785 00:42:36,275 --> 00:42:39,034 Look at them carefully and see if you recognize anyone. 786 00:42:39,137 --> 00:42:41,310 The murderer could have gone back to the gallery that night 787 00:42:41,413 --> 00:42:43,793 to see if Mrs. Ranieri was dead. 788 00:42:43,896 --> 00:42:45,344 And we can't rule out the possibility 789 00:42:45,448 --> 00:42:47,758 that he is a pervert. 790 00:42:49,448 --> 00:42:54,413 Aldo Sarti, age 42. Eight convictions. 791 00:42:54,517 --> 00:42:58,275 Sandro Lorrani, age 35. Exhibitionist. 792 00:42:58,379 --> 00:43:00,275 12 arrests. 793 00:43:00,379 --> 00:43:05,517 Mario Zandri, age 66. Four convictions. 794 00:43:05,620 --> 00:43:08,034 Giacomo Rossi, age 50. 795 00:43:08,137 --> 00:43:12,896 Three convictions for corrupting the morals of minors. 796 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,724 Rupatelli Luigi, alias Ursula Andress... 797 00:43:17,827 --> 00:43:20,482 -No, no. Petrini! -Yes, Inspector? 798 00:43:20,586 --> 00:43:22,517 -What's this character doing here? 799 00:43:22,620 --> 00:43:24,206 How many times do I have to tell you 800 00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:26,000 Ursula Andress belongs with the transvestites, 801 00:43:26,103 --> 00:43:27,620 not the perverts? 802 00:43:27,724 --> 00:43:29,482 -I should hope so. -Thank you. 803 00:43:29,586 --> 00:43:30,793 -Now, if you come with me, Dalmas. 804 00:43:30,896 --> 00:43:33,103 I have something interesting to show you. 805 00:43:33,206 --> 00:43:34,620 We have subjected this glove 806 00:43:34,724 --> 00:43:37,482 to a thorough microscopic examination 807 00:43:37,586 --> 00:43:41,103 and have managed to come up with a few interesting facts. 808 00:43:41,206 --> 00:43:43,413 For example, the bloodstains 809 00:43:43,517 --> 00:43:45,724 are of the same group as Monica Ranieri's. 810 00:43:45,827 --> 00:43:49,724 We can deduce that the murderer was wearing it at the time. 811 00:43:49,827 --> 00:43:52,000 See these grains? They're tobacco ash, 812 00:43:52,103 --> 00:43:54,379 from which we can tell he smokes expensive cigars. 813 00:43:54,482 --> 00:43:56,000 In fact, we can go further. 814 00:43:56,103 --> 00:43:58,275 The traces of tobacco his fingers left on the glove 815 00:43:58,379 --> 00:44:01,034 are characteristic of Havana cigars. 816 00:44:01,137 --> 00:44:02,724 Now, look at this here. 817 00:44:02,827 --> 00:44:04,724 It was our most exciting discovery. 818 00:44:04,827 --> 00:44:08,413 Microscopic particles of a particular type of fiber 819 00:44:08,517 --> 00:44:10,620 made only in England. 820 00:44:10,724 --> 00:44:12,344 We found it inside. 821 00:44:12,448 --> 00:44:13,758 -Well, that's a good start anyway. 822 00:44:13,862 --> 00:44:16,172 Basically what it really means is this. 823 00:44:16,275 --> 00:44:17,620 We now know with certainty 824 00:44:17,724 --> 00:44:19,793 that he is a man who smokes cigars, 825 00:44:19,896 --> 00:44:22,896 who dresses with elegance and who is above all left-handed. 826 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,724 This we've been able to deduce from the wear on the glove. 827 00:44:25,827 --> 00:44:27,172 Our next move is to feed these facts 828 00:44:27,275 --> 00:44:28,689 that our technicians discovered 829 00:44:28,793 --> 00:44:30,655 and other relevant information straight into the computer 830 00:44:30,758 --> 00:44:31,931 and get the result. 831 00:44:32,034 --> 00:44:33,482 Have you done that yet? -Yes, sir. All ready. 832 00:44:33,586 --> 00:44:35,103 -Good, then we'll have a look. 833 00:44:35,206 --> 00:44:37,586 This is an outline of the man we are after, 834 00:44:37,689 --> 00:44:41,379 reconstructed with an accuracy of plus or minus 10%. 835 00:44:43,310 --> 00:44:46,758 In a moment will follow the first personal data. 836 00:44:47,965 --> 00:44:50,206 Statistically speaking, the description could fit 837 00:44:50,310 --> 00:44:55,034 approximately 150,000 inhabitants of this city. 838 00:44:55,137 --> 00:44:58,413 Of those, most of the ones we feel are most likely 839 00:44:58,517 --> 00:45:00,827 are already in jail. 840 00:45:15,586 --> 00:45:17,793 -Well, what are you waiting for? -Ha. 841 00:45:17,896 --> 00:45:23,655 You think it's easy to check the alibis of 150,000 people. 842 00:45:23,758 --> 00:45:27,206 Look, I -- I've got nothing to go on. 843 00:45:27,310 --> 00:45:29,724 It's only a hunch but I'm convinced 844 00:45:29,827 --> 00:45:33,620 that you really did see the murderer's face that night. 845 00:45:33,724 --> 00:45:35,724 -But I told you if there is one thing I'm convinced of -- 846 00:45:35,827 --> 00:45:38,034 -Concentrate, Mr. Dalmas, please. 847 00:45:38,137 --> 00:45:40,068 Try to remember what you saw. 848 00:45:41,379 --> 00:45:44,034 -No, it's no use. 849 00:45:44,137 --> 00:45:46,413 I've run through it over and over again. 850 00:45:46,517 --> 00:45:47,655 I can't get it out of my head 851 00:45:47,758 --> 00:45:50,655 but I can't manage to pin it down either. 852 00:45:54,482 --> 00:45:57,275 Monica Ranieri has left the hospital 853 00:45:57,379 --> 00:45:59,275 and returned to her apartment. 854 00:45:59,379 --> 00:46:02,137 The Via Bruxelles, number 35. 855 00:46:06,344 --> 00:46:08,896 -Can I go now? -Mm-hmm. 856 00:46:21,413 --> 00:46:23,310 -What floor? -Third. 857 00:46:42,724 --> 00:46:47,344 -I'm really sorry, Mr. Dalmas, but my wife can't see anybody. 858 00:46:47,448 --> 00:46:50,068 She's in bed under sedation at the moment. 859 00:46:50,172 --> 00:46:54,068 You understand, after what she's been through. 860 00:46:56,931 --> 00:46:59,482 What did you want to speak to her about? 861 00:46:59,586 --> 00:47:01,482 -Oh, nothing much. 862 00:47:01,586 --> 00:47:05,862 I -- I just wanted to talk to her about that evening. 863 00:47:05,965 --> 00:47:07,275 You see, I'm convinced I saw something 864 00:47:07,379 --> 00:47:09,551 that might lead to the attacker's capture. 865 00:47:11,103 --> 00:47:13,068 I wanted to check 866 00:47:13,172 --> 00:47:15,448 what I remember with what your wife remembers. 867 00:47:15,551 --> 00:47:17,448 -My wife has already told the police 868 00:47:17,551 --> 00:47:20,068 everything she knows on various occasions. 869 00:47:20,172 --> 00:47:21,931 I can see no reason for subjecting her 870 00:47:22,034 --> 00:47:23,586 to that ordeal again. 871 00:47:23,689 --> 00:47:25,448 -I see. 872 00:47:28,931 --> 00:47:30,551 May I ask you an irrelevant question? 873 00:47:30,655 --> 00:47:32,068 -Certainly. 874 00:47:32,172 --> 00:47:34,586 -How tall are you? 875 00:47:34,689 --> 00:47:37,068 -6"1', I think. Why? 876 00:47:38,241 --> 00:47:42,931 I... Nothing, just curious. 877 00:47:43,034 --> 00:47:45,344 -Anything else? -No. 878 00:47:45,448 --> 00:47:50,379 And...I apologize if I've disturbed you. 879 00:47:50,482 --> 00:47:52,137 Looking for your cigarettes? -Yes. 880 00:47:52,241 --> 00:47:53,448 -Here. 881 00:47:58,068 --> 00:48:00,724 I'll...be seeing you, Mr. Ranieri. 882 00:48:09,862 --> 00:48:13,103 -There, didn't I tell you not to bet on that horse? 883 00:48:13,206 --> 00:48:15,206 -One's no good. You've got to get two or three. 884 00:48:24,793 --> 00:48:26,482 -Our first victim. -Right. 885 00:48:26,586 --> 00:48:29,655 -A sales girl in an antiques shop. 886 00:48:29,758 --> 00:48:32,137 She left at the same time every evening 887 00:48:32,241 --> 00:48:33,896 and was found murdered in a park. 888 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,275 -Park? -It was a mile and half 889 00:48:36,379 --> 00:48:39,482 from the shop in the opposite direction from her home. 890 00:48:41,137 --> 00:48:43,379 -This is the first question. -What? 891 00:48:43,482 --> 00:48:45,896 -Why so far away and why in a park? 892 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,482 -Well, she could have gone to meet a boyfriend there. 893 00:48:48,586 --> 00:48:51,379 Second victim. She was a prostitute. 894 00:48:51,482 --> 00:48:55,482 She was killed under a bridge where she took her clients. 895 00:48:55,586 --> 00:48:59,275 They suspected her pimp. His name is Garullo 896 00:48:59,379 --> 00:49:03,000 but his alibi turned out to be iron clad. 897 00:49:03,103 --> 00:49:05,689 -Where can I find this Garullo? 898 00:49:07,068 --> 00:49:09,517 You can't. He's in jail. 899 00:49:09,620 --> 00:49:11,344 At least he was until a month ago. 900 00:49:11,448 --> 00:49:12,724 -Great. 901 00:49:13,862 --> 00:49:16,965 Okay, number three. -Number three... 902 00:49:17,068 --> 00:49:19,689 That was the student. -Student? 903 00:49:19,793 --> 00:49:22,103 -She was killed on her way home from the movies. 904 00:49:22,206 --> 00:49:25,310 -Movies? -Okay? 905 00:49:26,758 --> 00:49:29,482 Enough? 906 00:49:29,586 --> 00:49:32,965 -Okay, we start with the first one. The antiques shop. 907 00:49:47,724 --> 00:49:50,068 -Good morning. -Oh, good morning. 908 00:49:50,172 --> 00:49:51,275 -Can I help you? 909 00:49:51,379 --> 00:49:53,413 -Er, yes. I'd like to see some -- 910 00:49:53,517 --> 00:49:56,172 -Ah, yes, you're interested in porcelain. 911 00:49:56,275 --> 00:49:58,482 -Oh, I... -You have marvelous taste. 912 00:49:58,586 --> 00:50:01,241 These pieces are beautiful. 913 00:50:01,344 --> 00:50:03,448 -Er... -Simply divine. 914 00:50:04,931 --> 00:50:07,448 -How much is this one? -300. 915 00:50:07,551 --> 00:50:09,241 -Oh... -Oh, but I won't be 916 00:50:09,344 --> 00:50:10,379 unreasonable about it. 917 00:50:10,482 --> 00:50:13,034 Not with you. -Erm... 918 00:50:15,689 --> 00:50:17,724 My goodness. 919 00:50:20,586 --> 00:50:22,620 Isn't this the shop where that girl worked? 920 00:50:24,241 --> 00:50:27,655 -Pardon? -The girl who was murdered. 921 00:50:27,758 --> 00:50:31,655 -Ah. The poor, poor girl. 922 00:50:31,758 --> 00:50:35,241 What a terrible way to end? -What was she like? 923 00:50:35,344 --> 00:50:40,689 -Oh, a lovely girl, but a little unusual, you know. 924 00:50:40,793 --> 00:50:42,275 -Oh? -Well, yes. 925 00:50:42,379 --> 00:50:45,310 It was said that she preferred women. 926 00:50:45,413 --> 00:50:47,034 -Oh. -I couldn't care less. 927 00:50:47,137 --> 00:50:48,103 -Of course not. 928 00:50:48,206 --> 00:50:51,482 -I'm no racist, for heaven's sake. 929 00:50:51,586 --> 00:50:54,862 I remember that night as if it were yesterday. 930 00:50:54,965 --> 00:50:57,137 We hadn't made a sale all day. 931 00:50:57,241 --> 00:51:01,517 Then just before we closed, we sold a painting. 932 00:51:01,620 --> 00:51:04,137 It was in the window. -Did you make the sale? 933 00:51:04,241 --> 00:51:08,206 -No, the poor girl did. I was checking the books. 934 00:51:08,310 --> 00:51:12,689 And then she went out without even saying goodnight. 935 00:51:14,241 --> 00:51:17,344 Soon after, they found her. 936 00:51:18,965 --> 00:51:24,241 -Um, what was the painting? -Oh, it was strange. 937 00:51:24,344 --> 00:51:28,172 It was naive but macabre at the same time. 938 00:51:29,448 --> 00:51:31,862 -Would you like to see it? -You still have it? 939 00:51:31,965 --> 00:51:35,275 -Oh, I've only a copy of it. A photo. 940 00:51:35,379 --> 00:51:38,517 -Oh, I would like to see it, yes. 941 00:51:40,827 --> 00:51:42,310 -I'll show you. 942 00:51:49,206 --> 00:51:51,689 Let me see... Oh, here it is. 943 00:51:59,275 --> 00:52:01,448 -Can I borrow this? -No, no, no. 944 00:52:01,551 --> 00:52:02,965 No, we don't normally allow it. 945 00:52:03,068 --> 00:52:04,517 -Please. 946 00:52:21,275 --> 00:52:24,586 Hey, what's wrong? -I don't know. 947 00:52:24,689 --> 00:52:27,344 That painting, it bothers me. 948 00:52:30,137 --> 00:52:32,172 What is it? 949 00:52:32,275 --> 00:52:33,758 -It's a photo of a painting that's somehow 950 00:52:33,862 --> 00:52:36,586 mixed up in these murders. 951 00:52:36,689 --> 00:52:38,862 -Looks a bit perverted to me. 952 00:52:41,379 --> 00:52:43,551 -Uh-huh? -Hmm. 953 00:52:46,275 --> 00:52:47,862 Darling. 954 00:52:52,379 --> 00:52:54,551 -Oh, it gives me the shivers. 955 00:54:14,827 --> 00:54:18,551 -Something wrong, Miss? -No, nothing. Thanks. 956 00:54:18,655 --> 00:54:21,448 Goodnight. -Goodnight, Miss. 957 00:56:12,448 --> 00:56:13,827 No! No! 958 00:56:18,620 --> 00:56:20,586 No! 959 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,551 No! 960 00:56:56,413 --> 00:56:59,551 -And so black gloved killer removing the panties 961 00:56:59,655 --> 00:57:01,586 as he kills the girl from the racetrack. 962 00:57:01,689 --> 00:57:03,793 After the famous scene where Inspector Morosini 963 00:57:03,896 --> 00:57:05,758 shouts bring in the perverts! 964 00:57:05,862 --> 00:57:08,137 And then gets irritated when they bring in, 965 00:57:08,241 --> 00:57:11,000 "Ursula Andress," who should be with the transvestites, 966 00:57:11,103 --> 00:57:12,275 not with the perverts. 967 00:57:12,379 --> 00:57:14,103 We have a lot of tropes to deal with 968 00:57:14,206 --> 00:57:16,413 as we begin the "Battle for the Black Glove." 969 00:57:16,517 --> 00:57:19,379 So let's flip a coin to get to a starting place. 970 00:57:19,482 --> 00:57:21,310 Here are the rules. 971 00:57:21,413 --> 00:57:23,241 Each team will have one minute to make your case. 972 00:57:23,344 --> 00:57:26,034 We will alternate team members according to the topic. 973 00:57:26,137 --> 00:57:29,034 The opposing team will then have one minute to rebut. 974 00:57:29,137 --> 00:57:32,034 Then we will have two minutes of free-for-all rebuttal, 975 00:57:32,137 --> 00:57:35,689 in which everybody is encouraged to passionately defend your man. 976 00:57:35,793 --> 00:57:38,724 And at the end of that time, we'll apportion 10 points. 977 00:57:38,827 --> 00:57:41,551 You can win all ten points, or in the case of a tie, 978 00:57:41,655 --> 00:57:43,517 five to each team 979 00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:46,344 or any combination of point awards adding up to 10. 980 00:57:46,448 --> 00:57:47,793 Okay, Darcy. -Yes? 981 00:57:47,896 --> 00:57:49,827 -You have the coin. -I do. 982 00:57:49,931 --> 00:57:51,310 -Toss the coin. 983 00:57:52,344 --> 00:57:53,344 Okay. 984 00:57:53,448 --> 00:57:56,793 -What the heck? -It is heads, Team Bava. 985 00:58:02,620 --> 00:58:04,034 Uh, Team Bava will go first, 986 00:58:04,137 --> 00:58:06,103 and that will be you, Troy. 987 00:58:06,206 --> 00:58:08,793 This movie started out with an extreme close up 988 00:58:08,896 --> 00:58:11,206 of the hands of the black glove, 989 00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:15,862 black-gloved killer planning a murder and caressing his knives. 990 00:58:15,965 --> 00:58:18,172 What's the significance of the black gloves? 991 00:58:18,275 --> 00:58:21,655 And how does that trope belong to Bava? 992 00:58:21,758 --> 00:58:23,896 -Well, it's appropriate we should be going first with Bava 993 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,137 because he is the best one. 994 00:58:25,241 --> 00:58:27,896 But also in this context, 995 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,172 I think it's, uh, it is the iconic image of the giallo. 996 00:58:31,275 --> 00:58:33,551 I think if -- moments you say giallo to anybody 997 00:58:33,655 --> 00:58:35,379 who knows anything about these movies, 998 00:58:35,482 --> 00:58:37,724 you picture the -- the gloves, the black gloves, 999 00:58:37,827 --> 00:58:40,551 always that sort of fetishistic imagery about that. 1000 00:58:40,655 --> 00:58:43,620 And Bava, well, certainly we have black gloves 1001 00:58:43,724 --> 00:58:46,551 in "Blood and Black Lace," but all the way back, 1002 00:58:46,655 --> 00:58:48,931 the very first Italian horror film of the sound era, 1003 00:58:49,034 --> 00:58:52,724 he works on a film called "I Vampiri" back in 1956. 1004 00:58:52,827 --> 00:58:55,793 And although it's not a giallo, it does have giallo elements, 1005 00:58:55,896 --> 00:58:58,206 including a killer with black gloves. 1006 00:58:58,310 --> 00:59:00,103 So there you go. 1007 00:59:00,206 --> 00:59:01,862 -And you're saying Bava was in charge of those black gloves? 1008 00:59:01,965 --> 00:59:03,379 -I think that's definitely something 1009 00:59:03,482 --> 00:59:04,793 that he brought to the table, 1010 00:59:04,896 --> 00:59:06,517 and definitely something 1011 00:59:06,620 --> 00:59:08,517 that would become a recurring element. 1012 00:59:08,620 --> 00:59:10,551 And yeah, it is, again, 1013 00:59:10,655 --> 00:59:12,862 I think it is the defining image of this genre. 1014 00:59:12,965 --> 00:59:15,793 -Okay. Claire, you have one minute to respond. 1015 00:59:15,896 --> 00:59:18,275 -Well, Bruno Forzani, who's the co-director 1016 00:59:18,379 --> 00:59:20,517 of the Neo-giallo "Amer" and "Strange Colour 1017 00:59:20,620 --> 00:59:22,034 of Your Body's Tears," 1018 00:59:22,137 --> 00:59:23,965 said something I really agree with about 1019 00:59:24,068 --> 00:59:26,586 how when the killer is unmasked at the end of a giallo, 1020 00:59:26,689 --> 00:59:30,413 it's disappointing because this archetypal being 1021 00:59:30,517 --> 00:59:32,103 that's almost like a Cenobite 1022 00:59:32,206 --> 00:59:35,344 with this steel phallus and leather flesh 1023 00:59:35,448 --> 00:59:37,172 and it has no face. 1024 00:59:37,275 --> 00:59:39,379 It's the embodiment of a certain kind of rage 1025 00:59:39,482 --> 00:59:43,413 that is the product of radical cultural change. 1026 00:59:43,517 --> 00:59:45,862 And that's where the giallo comes from. 1027 00:59:45,965 --> 00:59:49,448 It comes from the extreme cultural tumult 1028 00:59:49,551 --> 00:59:51,344 that was happening really all over the world, 1029 00:59:51,448 --> 00:59:53,137 but certainly in Italy. 1030 00:59:53,241 --> 00:59:56,000 And that creature, that anonymous, 1031 00:59:56,103 --> 00:59:59,172 black-swathed creature should embody that. 1032 00:59:59,275 --> 01:00:00,379 Once it goes back to being human, 1033 01:00:00,482 --> 01:00:02,103 it's not quite as interesting, 1034 01:00:02,206 --> 01:00:03,965 even if the solution is pretty interesting. 1035 01:00:04,068 --> 01:00:05,896 -You're saying Argento gets the -- gets the call 1036 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,103 because of his -- does the rage better? 1037 01:00:09,206 --> 01:00:10,172 -Yeah. -He does the rage 1038 01:00:10,275 --> 01:00:11,517 of the black gloves better. 1039 01:00:11,620 --> 01:00:13,931 -Yeah, I think we just saw that. 1040 01:00:14,034 --> 01:00:15,965 -Okay. Alright. Claire, thank you. 1041 01:00:16,068 --> 01:00:17,655 And now -- now we're going to have 1042 01:00:17,758 --> 01:00:19,172 the two-minute dogpile session of the -- 1043 01:00:19,275 --> 01:00:22,482 of the debate where anybody can talk 1044 01:00:22,586 --> 01:00:24,344 -Well, if you want to talk about rage, 1045 01:00:24,448 --> 01:00:26,517 I mean, look at the killings in "Blood and Black Lace," 1046 01:00:26,620 --> 01:00:28,103 how physical they are. 1047 01:00:28,206 --> 01:00:30,103 I mean, it's incredibly strong, I think, uh, 1048 01:00:30,206 --> 01:00:32,344 stronger than anything in "Bird with the Crystal Plumage." 1049 01:00:32,448 --> 01:00:35,551 -So you're saying the Bava killer is not weaker than the, 1050 01:00:35,655 --> 01:00:37,862 uh, than the Argento killer? -Not at all. 1051 01:00:37,965 --> 01:00:40,137 But some of those Bava killings are done by, like, 1052 01:00:40,241 --> 01:00:44,965 a reluctant person who's doing it for sort of personal reasons. 1053 01:00:45,068 --> 01:00:47,137 This is something I'd like to talk about a lot more later, 1054 01:00:47,241 --> 01:00:49,034 is like the motivation really matters. 1055 01:00:49,137 --> 01:00:52,103 And it should be sick and twisted and perverted and hard 1056 01:00:52,206 --> 01:00:54,241 for the average person to relate to. 1057 01:00:54,344 --> 01:00:58,000 And I think Argento killer has that going in spades. 1058 01:00:58,103 --> 01:01:00,344 -That is something that Argento brings to the genre. 1059 01:01:00,448 --> 01:01:02,172 When you look at Bava, 1060 01:01:02,275 --> 01:01:04,379 you're seeing people are motivated by things 1061 01:01:04,482 --> 01:01:06,931 like sex and money and so forth. 1062 01:01:07,034 --> 01:01:08,379 When you look at Argento, 1063 01:01:08,482 --> 01:01:11,620 because he was such a mixed up guy. 1064 01:01:11,724 --> 01:01:14,275 I mean, we don't need to go into it all here, 1065 01:01:14,379 --> 01:01:17,172 that he did actually bring a Freudian sort of 1066 01:01:17,275 --> 01:01:19,172 psychological stuff. 1067 01:01:19,275 --> 01:01:23,413 And I think that's because he is himself twisted, malformed, 1068 01:01:23,517 --> 01:01:24,517 barely able to function in society. 1069 01:01:24,620 --> 01:01:26,137 -Whoa. 1070 01:01:26,241 --> 01:01:27,965 -For once, I agree with you, Lars. 1071 01:01:28,068 --> 01:01:30,206 -Are you arguing for Argento from the Bava team? 1072 01:01:30,310 --> 01:01:32,724 -I'm arguing that Dario Argento is barely functional 1073 01:01:32,827 --> 01:01:34,931 as a human being... 1074 01:01:35,034 --> 01:01:38,517 ...which makes him more able to get into 1075 01:01:38,620 --> 01:01:40,482 this sort of murdering mindset. 1076 01:01:40,586 --> 01:01:41,689 -Oh, wow. -Wow. 1077 01:01:41,793 --> 01:01:43,241 -Okay. -You know he wore the gloves 1078 01:01:43,344 --> 01:01:44,862 and he's still alive? 1079 01:01:44,965 --> 01:01:46,448 -Yeah, I know he wore the gloves, 1080 01:01:46,551 --> 01:01:47,965 but he's a tiny little man. -You might want to spin 1081 01:01:48,068 --> 01:01:49,344 in circles as you leave the lot. -He has smaller hands than, 1082 01:01:49,448 --> 01:01:51,172 I don't know, the president of the United States. 1083 01:01:51,275 --> 01:01:53,965 -Oh. -Is that possible? 1084 01:01:54,068 --> 01:01:55,206 -You're about to get the whistle. 1085 01:01:57,172 --> 01:01:59,551 -We're -- We're talking about Dario's hands? 1086 01:01:59,655 --> 01:02:01,551 -Yeah. 1087 01:02:01,655 --> 01:02:03,482 Because he, famously, he would -- he would do -- 1088 01:02:03,586 --> 01:02:04,827 -He wore the black gloves in his movie. 1089 01:02:04,931 --> 01:02:06,620 -He wore the black gloves. -So those black gloves, 1090 01:02:06,724 --> 01:02:08,413 if they're full of rage, were Dario's hands. 1091 01:02:08,517 --> 01:02:10,000 -They were always small gloves. -Raging hands. 1092 01:02:10,103 --> 01:02:12,586 -Bava's gloves were big. 1093 01:02:12,689 --> 01:02:14,344 -You see these gloves? 1094 01:02:14,448 --> 01:02:16,655 If these gloves do not fit, you must acquit. 1095 01:02:16,758 --> 01:02:18,241 Oh, no. 1096 01:02:18,344 --> 01:02:20,862 And I'm telling you, watch this right now. 1097 01:02:20,965 --> 01:02:24,172 -Yeah, it's true. -They don't fit. 1098 01:02:24,275 --> 01:02:27,103 -Okay. -What? 1099 01:02:27,206 --> 01:02:28,448 -It was the O.J. trial. Look it up. 1100 01:02:28,551 --> 01:02:30,793 It was a whole thing. 1101 01:02:30,896 --> 01:02:32,965 Alright. Anybody else? 1102 01:02:34,965 --> 01:02:36,413 You got to do better on the whistle. 1103 01:02:36,517 --> 01:02:37,689 -Well, no one really earned the whistle yet. 1104 01:02:37,793 --> 01:02:39,862 I was just practicing. 1105 01:02:42,275 --> 01:02:44,172 -Okay. By the way, 1106 01:02:44,275 --> 01:02:48,275 that is Suzy Kendall as the, uh, girlfriend Julia. 1107 01:02:48,379 --> 01:02:52,379 One of the most popular Brit actresses of the '60s. 1108 01:02:52,482 --> 01:02:54,241 And she became internationally known 1109 01:02:54,344 --> 01:02:57,586 with her prominent role in "To Sir, with Love" in 1967. 1110 01:02:57,689 --> 01:02:59,655 She plays the supportive teacher trying 1111 01:02:59,758 --> 01:03:01,517 to help Sidney Poitier out, 1112 01:03:01,620 --> 01:03:03,379 and she was probably best known at the time 1113 01:03:03,482 --> 01:03:05,896 this movie was made as the wife of Dudley Moore. 1114 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:07,724 She was in the tabloids all the time. 1115 01:03:07,827 --> 01:03:10,413 She's also in one of the best giallo films, 1116 01:03:10,517 --> 01:03:12,689 Sergio Martino's "Torso." 1117 01:03:12,793 --> 01:03:14,137 -Yeah. -Yeah! 1118 01:03:14,241 --> 01:03:16,448 -Alright. -You got points for that one. 1119 01:03:18,103 --> 01:03:21,000 -So, um, are you going to, uh... -This is your system. 1120 01:03:21,103 --> 01:03:22,068 -You're going to post the score? 1121 01:03:22,172 --> 01:03:23,241 -Yes. -Alright. 1122 01:03:23,344 --> 01:03:24,827 Since we're 32 minutes in the movie, 1123 01:03:24,931 --> 01:03:27,000 we should probably do one more trope, 1124 01:03:27,103 --> 01:03:31,275 um, and, um, t-- 1125 01:03:31,379 --> 01:03:32,310 -Keep talking. -Go ahead 1126 01:03:32,413 --> 01:03:34,448 and announce the score. 1127 01:03:34,551 --> 01:03:37,172 And, uh, Team Argento is going to go first on the next trope. 1128 01:03:37,275 --> 01:03:41,206 And, uh, Sam, one of the knocks on Argento 1129 01:03:41,310 --> 01:03:43,517 that has followed him throughout his life 1130 01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:45,620 is that he is a misogynist, 1131 01:03:45,724 --> 01:03:48,517 that he enjoys fetishizing the death of women. 1132 01:03:48,620 --> 01:03:51,482 So, um, it's now -- 1133 01:03:51,586 --> 01:03:53,413 We gave Argento the round, 1134 01:03:53,517 --> 01:03:56,655 uh, partly because you cratered, Lars. 1135 01:03:56,758 --> 01:03:58,482 But okay. 1136 01:04:03,586 --> 01:04:04,931 So true or false? 1137 01:04:05,034 --> 01:04:07,931 Uh, is -- is Argento misogynist, 1138 01:04:08,034 --> 01:04:09,896 and does that affect the enjoyment of the film? 1139 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,137 -Uh. thank you, Joe Bob. 1140 01:04:11,241 --> 01:04:12,724 I'm certainly most qualified to answer this. 1141 01:04:17,137 --> 01:04:18,896 False. -That's false. 1142 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,724 -Um, I don't know him personally, 1143 01:04:20,827 --> 01:04:22,931 but I think the language of "Crystal Plumage" 1144 01:04:23,034 --> 01:04:26,000 is in empathy with women 1145 01:04:26,103 --> 01:04:28,758 and aware of the dangers women face in 1146 01:04:28,862 --> 01:04:30,793 and around Italian society. 1147 01:04:30,896 --> 01:04:33,172 I think the structure of the suspense 1148 01:04:33,275 --> 01:04:35,586 is entirely about investing you in the danger 1149 01:04:35,689 --> 01:04:37,413 and the outcome of their lives, 1150 01:04:37,517 --> 01:04:38,931 and I don't think if you were taking pleasure 1151 01:04:39,034 --> 01:04:42,206 in their murders, he could concoct scenes 1152 01:04:42,310 --> 01:04:44,241 that would make you invested in that outcome. 1153 01:04:44,344 --> 01:04:47,379 -Okay. Lars rebuttal on that? -Yeah. 1154 01:04:47,482 --> 01:04:50,655 I also -- I think that the world at large is misogynistic. 1155 01:04:50,758 --> 01:04:53,827 And so, uh, particularly at this time, 1156 01:04:53,931 --> 01:04:55,931 I mean, I don't know if it's more or less misogynistic now. 1157 01:04:56,034 --> 01:04:57,896 It kind of seems to be kind of about the same, 1158 01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,724 but the -- the incentives, 1159 01:04:59,827 --> 01:05:02,689 commercial incentives were to make movies 1160 01:05:02,793 --> 01:05:05,000 that men would go and pay and see. 1161 01:05:05,103 --> 01:05:06,931 And so it was generally sort of thought 1162 01:05:07,034 --> 01:05:08,724 that men wanted to see beautiful women being murdered. 1163 01:05:08,827 --> 01:05:10,793 I'm not sure why that was the case, 1164 01:05:10,896 --> 01:05:13,000 but it's certainly something you see in a lot of giallo films. 1165 01:05:13,103 --> 01:05:17,034 I don't think Argento, uh, himself was a misogynist. 1166 01:05:17,137 --> 01:05:18,724 He certainly made films in partnership 1167 01:05:18,827 --> 01:05:20,482 with Daria Nicolodi and made, uh, 1168 01:05:20,586 --> 01:05:22,172 had a lot of strong female characters. 1169 01:05:22,275 --> 01:05:23,827 So I don't think it's true that he was. 1170 01:05:23,931 --> 01:05:25,241 I also don't think it's true that Bava was. 1171 01:05:25,344 --> 01:05:27,206 So I just think that it's, uh, 1172 01:05:27,310 --> 01:05:29,482 it's an unfair sort of standard to say, 1173 01:05:29,586 --> 01:05:31,827 like society's misogyny, 1174 01:05:31,931 --> 01:05:34,413 you know, affects the commercial considerations for these films. 1175 01:05:34,517 --> 01:05:36,034 -Didn't Argento say something like, 1176 01:05:36,137 --> 01:05:38,068 it's more interesting to watch -- watch -- 1177 01:05:38,172 --> 01:05:40,275 watch a woman get killed than a man? 1178 01:05:41,551 --> 01:05:43,344 -It's more interesting to watch a woman 1179 01:05:43,448 --> 01:05:45,793 do most almost anything than a man generally, I would say. 1180 01:05:45,896 --> 01:05:47,517 -Okay. -Yeah. 1181 01:05:48,896 --> 01:05:51,137 -Thank you. And now anybody can talk. 1182 01:05:51,241 --> 01:05:52,724 We're in the free-for-all portion 1183 01:05:52,827 --> 01:05:55,068 of the -- of the debate on misogyny. 1184 01:05:55,172 --> 01:05:56,862 Now, I'm surprised that we're getting 1185 01:05:56,965 --> 01:05:58,517 so much defensive Argento here 1186 01:05:58,620 --> 01:06:01,827 because he has gotten hammered over the years 1187 01:06:01,931 --> 01:06:04,310 for exactly this issue, 1188 01:06:04,413 --> 01:06:07,000 more so than really most filmmakers, 1189 01:06:07,103 --> 01:06:09,655 including other filmmakers who may deserve it more. 1190 01:06:09,758 --> 01:06:11,344 -The thing is, Joe Bob, 1191 01:06:11,448 --> 01:06:13,172 is that when so many people see the films, 1192 01:06:13,275 --> 01:06:15,206 which they do because he's a very, like I said, 1193 01:06:15,310 --> 01:06:19,310 the very basic sort of target, kind of down the middle movies, 1194 01:06:19,413 --> 01:06:21,172 then more people are going to have comments on it. 1195 01:06:21,275 --> 01:06:23,413 -Okay. What about you, Troy? What do you think? 1196 01:06:23,517 --> 01:06:24,793 -Oh, I don't think he is. 1197 01:06:24,896 --> 01:06:26,137 I don't think that he is either. 1198 01:06:26,241 --> 01:06:28,206 Actually, I don't think, um, 1199 01:06:28,310 --> 01:06:30,758 the guy who's more problematic for a lot of people is Fulci. 1200 01:06:30,862 --> 01:06:32,620 And I don't think that that's true either. 1201 01:06:32,724 --> 01:06:34,965 -Is that because of the characters or because of the way 1202 01:06:35,068 --> 01:06:36,965 he treated actresses on his set? 1203 01:06:37,068 --> 01:06:39,344 -He treated men pretty rottenly too, has to be said. 1204 01:06:39,448 --> 01:06:41,896 -Kind of like this set. -Yeah. Well, yeah, that's true. 1205 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:43,517 I've been abused the whole time I've been here. 1206 01:06:43,620 --> 01:06:45,551 So yeah, I understand that. 1207 01:06:45,655 --> 01:06:48,103 Um, no, I don't -- I think it's a knee jerk sort of reaction 1208 01:06:48,206 --> 01:06:51,034 because of the commercial demands of the marketplace, 1209 01:06:51,137 --> 01:06:52,931 uh, putting women into these, 1210 01:06:53,034 --> 01:06:55,965 uh, sensational images and things like that. 1211 01:06:56,068 --> 01:06:58,000 So people assume that they are misogynist 1212 01:06:58,103 --> 01:06:59,413 or coming from misogynist place. 1213 01:06:59,517 --> 01:07:01,068 I don't think they are, though. 1214 01:07:01,172 --> 01:07:02,896 -Who does Women characters better? 1215 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,758 -Both Argento. 1216 01:07:04,862 --> 01:07:06,103 If you look at, uh, Bava's films like 1217 01:07:06,206 --> 01:07:07,206 "Blood and Black Lace," which we were discussing, 1218 01:07:07,310 --> 01:07:09,103 let's, you know. 1219 01:07:09,206 --> 01:07:10,758 But if you look at later Bava films 1220 01:07:10,862 --> 01:07:12,379 he's doing, like "Lisa and the Devil." 1221 01:07:12,482 --> 01:07:14,379 He's doing some really interesting -- 1222 01:07:14,482 --> 01:07:16,862 had some really interesting, Well-rounded female characters. 1223 01:07:16,965 --> 01:07:18,275 -"The Whip and the Body." -Claire, you have 1224 01:07:18,379 --> 01:07:19,827 have to talk about this one. 1225 01:07:19,931 --> 01:07:21,103 You're the only woman on the panel. 1226 01:07:21,206 --> 01:07:23,965 -Forced to. I was waiting for permission, 1227 01:07:24,068 --> 01:07:25,000 Joe Bob, thank you. 1228 01:07:28,379 --> 01:07:30,172 And that's all I really had to say. 1229 01:07:30,275 --> 01:07:34,344 But no, Argento said that about "Bird" specifically, 1230 01:07:34,448 --> 01:07:38,034 that it is so sexually violent because that was 1231 01:07:38,137 --> 01:07:43,206 how he felt about what he saw in society at the time. 1232 01:07:43,310 --> 01:07:45,241 And I think when he says that thing about 1233 01:07:45,344 --> 01:07:47,689 how much more interesting it is to watch a beautiful woman die 1234 01:07:47,793 --> 01:07:49,758 than anyone else, he's trying to annoy people 1235 01:07:49,862 --> 01:07:53,551 who accuse him of that without the slightest hint of irony. 1236 01:07:53,655 --> 01:07:56,344 And I don't think anybody can really be a misogynist 1237 01:07:56,448 --> 01:08:00,758 who does such incredibly great older female characters. 1238 01:08:00,862 --> 01:08:02,931 -And you think they're better than -- than Bava's females? 1239 01:08:03,034 --> 01:08:04,931 -Yes. I don't often think 1240 01:08:05,034 --> 01:08:08,379 of the people in Bava movies as being like human. 1241 01:08:08,482 --> 01:08:11,551 One of my problems with, uh, "Blood and Black Lace" 1242 01:08:11,655 --> 01:08:13,965 is that there's so many fucking people in it. 1243 01:08:14,068 --> 01:08:15,379 I, like, I don't even know who they are 1244 01:08:15,482 --> 01:08:17,068 after a certain point. 1245 01:08:17,172 --> 01:08:18,965 It's like a whole sports team. 1246 01:08:19,068 --> 01:08:21,379 Who are these people? What are they doing here? 1247 01:08:21,482 --> 01:08:23,862 -I always hate it when they don't change their hair color. 1248 01:08:23,965 --> 01:08:25,931 Too many people with the same hair color. 1249 01:08:26,034 --> 01:08:28,655 Alright, time on that round. 1250 01:08:28,758 --> 01:08:30,793 Uh, Darcy, go ahead and post the score. 1251 01:08:30,896 --> 01:08:33,034 And now we're going back to the movie. 1252 01:08:33,137 --> 01:08:37,206 Um, I should say in some territories, 1253 01:08:37,310 --> 01:08:40,931 the panty removal shot was deleted. 1254 01:08:41,034 --> 01:08:42,827 They didn't mind the murder, 1255 01:08:42,931 --> 01:08:45,724 but they did mind the killer taking the panties 1256 01:08:45,827 --> 01:08:48,448 off of the dead woman. 1257 01:08:48,551 --> 01:08:50,482 Where are you on panty removal, Darcy? 1258 01:08:52,310 --> 01:08:55,206 -Panties are there to be removed. 1259 01:08:55,310 --> 01:08:57,517 -Alright. Before or after death? 1260 01:08:57,620 --> 01:08:58,965 It doesn't matter? 1261 01:08:59,068 --> 01:09:01,827 -I mean, it depends on how kinky you are, honestly. 1262 01:09:01,931 --> 01:09:03,551 -Okay. Alright. 1263 01:09:03,655 --> 01:09:04,862 -Do you want me to do this or not? 1264 01:09:04,965 --> 01:09:06,724 I don't know. -Yeah, go ahead. No. go ahead. 1265 01:09:06,827 --> 01:09:07,931 I'm sorry. Sorry to bother you. 1266 01:09:08,034 --> 01:09:10,965 Okay. 1267 01:09:11,068 --> 01:09:15,620 -Alright. How kinky is "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage?" 1268 01:09:15,724 --> 01:09:17,896 -I would say it's very kinky for its day. 1269 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,931 -Okay. 1270 01:09:20,034 --> 01:09:21,862 And of course, we endorse that here at "The Last Drive-In." 1271 01:09:21,965 --> 01:09:24,551 -We do. -Okay. 1272 01:09:24,655 --> 01:09:26,379 And so the -- -I'm getting to it. 1273 01:09:26,482 --> 01:09:28,344 Gosh. -Alright. 1274 01:09:28,448 --> 01:09:30,793 So the score is 12-8. 1275 01:09:30,896 --> 01:09:32,206 -Spoilers. 1276 01:09:38,827 --> 01:09:42,034 -Partly because everyone kind of agreed 1277 01:09:42,137 --> 01:09:44,241 that Argento is not a misogynist. 1278 01:09:44,344 --> 01:09:47,758 And so his -- his female character stood up 1279 01:09:47,862 --> 01:09:49,758 to the Bava female characters. 1280 01:09:59,137 --> 01:10:01,862 -Tell me something. Is it really necessary? 1281 01:10:03,172 --> 01:10:04,517 -What? 1282 01:10:04,620 --> 01:10:06,310 -Running around, playing the detective. 1283 01:10:06,413 --> 01:10:10,310 -Hm. -Isn't it slightly ridiculous? 1284 01:10:10,413 --> 01:10:12,965 And rather dangerous, too? 1285 01:10:13,689 --> 01:10:16,172 -No. -Thank you. 1286 01:10:18,586 --> 01:10:21,448 -Besides, I have a feeling that I'm closer to the truth 1287 01:10:21,551 --> 01:10:24,103 than either one of us realizes. 1288 01:10:32,482 --> 01:10:34,586 What's happening to me? 1289 01:10:34,689 --> 01:10:37,413 This damn thing is turning into an obsession. 1290 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,551 Who is it? -Morosini. 1291 01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:51,275 Ah, hello. 1292 01:10:51,379 --> 01:10:54,793 How are things? -Fine, come in. 1293 01:10:54,896 --> 01:10:57,896 -For a minute, I thought I'd got the wrong address. 1294 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,551 Doesn't anyone else live in this building now? 1295 01:11:00,655 --> 01:11:04,275 -No, they're going to tear the building down soon. 1296 01:11:04,379 --> 01:11:06,103 My lease doesn't run out until next week. 1297 01:11:06,206 --> 01:11:08,620 So, I'm staying on. 1298 01:11:08,724 --> 01:11:10,586 -Ah-ha. 1299 01:11:12,655 --> 01:11:16,172 -Care for a coffee? -Ah, thanks, I would. 1300 01:11:16,275 --> 01:11:18,379 In fact, it's just what I need. 1301 01:11:18,482 --> 01:11:20,620 I've been up all night. 1302 01:11:23,103 --> 01:11:24,965 Ah, thanks. 1303 01:11:25,068 --> 01:11:26,413 Thanks. 1304 01:11:37,931 --> 01:11:40,034 -How come? -Eh? 1305 01:11:40,137 --> 01:11:41,758 Ah. 1306 01:11:45,241 --> 01:11:46,379 Here. 1307 01:11:53,103 --> 01:11:55,310 -When? -Last night. 1308 01:11:57,137 --> 01:11:59,551 A blonde. 28. Lived alone. 1309 01:12:00,827 --> 01:12:03,103 The usual blank wall. 1310 01:12:03,206 --> 01:12:06,655 No clues. No tie-in with the other three. 1311 01:12:06,758 --> 01:12:09,310 The press are beginning to put two and two together. 1312 01:12:09,413 --> 01:12:12,344 They think they see a link between the four murders. 1313 01:12:14,655 --> 01:12:16,620 -Oh, Julia, this is Inspector Morosini. 1314 01:12:16,724 --> 01:12:19,517 -Good morning. 1315 01:12:19,620 --> 01:12:24,896 Excuse me, I think we've met somewhere before? 1316 01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,413 -No, I'm sure we haven't. -Hey, look at this. 1317 01:12:28,517 --> 01:12:30,965 -Not another! 1318 01:12:35,896 --> 01:12:38,862 -As you may have suspected, Mr. Dalmas, 1319 01:12:38,965 --> 01:12:42,724 I'm afraid there is an ulterior motive for my visit. 1320 01:12:42,827 --> 01:12:45,413 I would like you to come down to headquarters with me. 1321 01:12:45,517 --> 01:12:48,448 -Why don't you just leave him alone? 1322 01:12:48,551 --> 01:12:50,275 -No, Julia. This is serious. 1323 01:12:50,379 --> 01:12:53,965 -He isn't even Italian and you're making him risk his life. 1324 01:12:54,068 --> 01:12:55,965 Somebody has already tried to kill him once. 1325 01:12:56,068 --> 01:12:58,689 And what makes you so sure they won't try again? 1326 01:12:58,793 --> 01:13:00,241 You're blackmailing him. 1327 01:13:00,344 --> 01:13:01,724 You're hanging onto his passport 1328 01:13:01,827 --> 01:13:02,793 and at the same time you're appealing 1329 01:13:02,896 --> 01:13:05,620 to his humane instincts. -Julia. 1330 01:13:05,724 --> 01:13:08,068 -Shall we go? 1331 01:13:09,655 --> 01:13:12,000 -Take care, won't you? 1332 01:13:16,586 --> 01:13:18,413 -I'm sorry. 1333 01:13:30,241 --> 01:13:33,586 Alright, alright. Now then. -Now then nothing. 1334 01:13:33,689 --> 01:13:36,827 I've gone over and over it. Absolutely nothing. 1335 01:13:39,068 --> 01:13:41,068 I saw them struggling on the mezzanine. 1336 01:13:41,172 --> 01:13:43,551 That's as far as I get. 1337 01:13:57,758 --> 01:13:59,965 I can't think of anything else. 1338 01:14:00,068 --> 01:14:02,275 But I know there's something. 1339 01:14:20,551 --> 01:14:23,344 -Thanks. -What are your plans? 1340 01:14:26,103 --> 01:14:28,931 Think I'll stick around for a while. 1341 01:14:29,034 --> 01:14:31,724 -Need any help for your investigations? 1342 01:14:33,551 --> 01:14:35,034 -I thought I was being followed. 1343 01:14:35,137 --> 01:14:37,827 -Oh, for your own protection. 1344 01:14:39,241 --> 01:14:41,551 -Yes, I would like some help. 1345 01:14:41,655 --> 01:14:43,689 I'd like to see that pimp, Garullo. 1346 01:14:43,793 --> 01:14:46,344 -Oh, that's easily arranged. 1347 01:14:46,448 --> 01:14:49,137 -Inspector, they've arrived for the television interview. 1348 01:14:49,241 --> 01:14:51,379 -Very well. Now it's my turn to make a fool of myself 1349 01:14:51,482 --> 01:14:53,068 in front of a few million television viewers. 1350 01:14:53,172 --> 01:14:54,793 -What'll you say? -I don't know. 1351 01:14:54,896 --> 01:14:57,482 I'll make up some spectacular lies... 1352 01:14:59,517 --> 01:15:02,448 That, briefly, is the situation. 1353 01:15:02,551 --> 01:15:07,000 For the moment, I can only say we have certain information 1354 01:15:07,103 --> 01:15:10,724 which I'm sure will soon lead us to the murderer. 1355 01:15:12,517 --> 01:15:16,103 I urge all citizens to remain calm 1356 01:15:16,206 --> 01:15:19,689 and report anything suspicious to the police immediately. 1357 01:15:19,793 --> 01:15:21,931 Thank you. 1358 01:15:32,724 --> 01:15:34,034 Get back to me as soon 1359 01:15:34,137 --> 01:15:37,206 as you can and let me know if you need anything else. 1360 01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:39,620 Inspector Morosini. 1361 01:15:42,275 --> 01:15:44,551 -Hello? 1362 01:15:44,655 --> 01:15:46,827 I wanted you to know how much I enjoyed 1363 01:15:46,931 --> 01:15:48,965 your talk on television just now. 1364 01:15:49,068 --> 01:15:50,551 -Who's this? -Who but the person 1365 01:15:50,655 --> 01:15:53,206 you are all so anxious to find? 1366 01:15:53,310 --> 01:15:55,413 The unknown the whole city fears... 1367 01:15:55,517 --> 01:15:58,068 -Quick, record the call on Morosini's line. 1368 01:15:58,172 --> 01:16:01,655 -You haven't got a clue. Not a suspicion. Nothing. 1369 01:16:01,758 --> 01:16:03,827 You know that and so do I. 1370 01:16:03,931 --> 01:16:05,896 It isn't right to trick the public. 1371 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:07,551 And to prove your threats don't frighten me, 1372 01:16:07,655 --> 01:16:08,931 I'm telling you now: 1373 01:16:09,034 --> 01:16:10,275 You'll have a fifth murder to solve 1374 01:16:10,379 --> 01:16:11,413 before the end of the week. 1375 01:16:11,517 --> 01:16:14,344 Hello? 1376 01:16:16,931 --> 01:16:18,965 -Careful, keep it upright. It's very heavy. 1377 01:16:19,068 --> 01:16:20,310 -Yes, it's very interesting. 1378 01:16:20,413 --> 01:16:23,241 Certainly one of the best examples of cosmic art. 1379 01:16:23,344 --> 01:16:25,241 But we never stand still. 1380 01:16:25,344 --> 01:16:26,379 In fact, in a couple of days 1381 01:16:26,482 --> 01:16:29,448 we're opening a new show of sculptures. 1382 01:16:29,551 --> 01:16:31,000 -You'll be changing everything? -Oh, yes. 1383 01:16:31,103 --> 01:16:34,413 These sculptures will all be replaced by others. Yes. 1384 01:16:34,517 --> 01:16:36,068 -Mr. Ranieri. -Yes. 1385 01:16:36,172 --> 01:16:37,482 -Would you mind having a look just to check 1386 01:16:37,586 --> 01:16:38,655 the position, please? 1387 01:16:38,758 --> 01:16:39,827 Yes, I'll be with you. 1388 01:16:39,931 --> 01:16:41,068 Ah, will you excuse me? 1389 01:16:41,172 --> 01:16:43,551 -Of course. -It's been nice seeing you here. 1390 01:16:43,655 --> 01:16:46,034 -Nice to see you, too. 1391 01:16:49,551 --> 01:16:53,275 -I want to thank you for what you did for me that night. 1392 01:16:53,379 --> 01:16:56,068 You know they told me, if you hadn't been there 1393 01:16:56,172 --> 01:16:57,586 that mad man would have killed me. 1394 01:16:57,689 --> 01:16:59,896 I'm better now, but... 1395 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,034 It was so frightening that I -- I don't know 1396 01:17:02,137 --> 01:17:03,551 if I'll ever quite forget it. -Monica. 1397 01:17:03,655 --> 01:17:05,448 Monica, please come here. 1398 01:17:05,551 --> 01:17:07,172 -Thank you. 1399 01:17:07,275 --> 01:17:10,068 -Oh, not at all. -Goodbye, thanks. 1400 01:17:14,655 --> 01:17:16,137 -Look, what do you think of placing it like this? 1401 01:17:16,241 --> 01:17:17,379 It's not perfectly vertical 1402 01:17:17,482 --> 01:17:19,000 but from below you can see it better 1403 01:17:19,103 --> 01:17:21,482 and the points catch more light this way. 1404 01:17:21,586 --> 01:17:23,862 -Yes, of course. You're right. 1405 01:17:25,655 --> 01:17:28,137 -Yeah, she was my girl, so long. 1406 01:17:32,137 --> 01:17:34,034 -Where are you going? 1407 01:17:35,137 --> 01:17:37,103 -You, you said "so long." 1408 01:17:37,206 --> 01:17:38,413 -I always say that. 1409 01:17:38,517 --> 01:17:42,413 I -- If I don't, I stutter. 1410 01:17:42,517 --> 01:17:45,172 -Oh, I see. 1411 01:17:46,448 --> 01:17:48,344 -What do you want to know? 1412 01:17:48,448 --> 01:17:49,758 -I'm trying to help -- 1413 01:17:49,862 --> 01:17:51,862 trying to help the police find the killer. 1414 01:17:51,965 --> 01:17:56,275 That's good, so long, 1415 01:17:56,379 --> 01:17:59,275 but I don't know what to tell you. 1416 01:17:59,379 --> 01:18:03,103 They picked me up a week after Rosita was murdered. 1417 01:18:03,206 --> 01:18:06,310 Poor kid, and here I am in jail. 1418 01:18:06,413 --> 01:18:09,068 And those poor girls having to get along without me. 1419 01:18:09,172 --> 01:18:14,000 No protection, with that m-monster loose on the streets. 1420 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,413 -What have they got you in for? 1421 01:18:17,517 --> 01:18:19,896 -Nothing! I was framed. 1422 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,758 They got it in... for me, so long. 1423 01:18:23,862 --> 01:18:26,862 They say I'm aiding and abetting prostitution 1424 01:18:26,965 --> 01:18:29,517 but I'm innocent. Look at me. 1425 01:18:29,620 --> 01:18:33,827 Do I... look like a pimp? 1426 01:18:33,931 --> 01:18:36,413 No! Look me straight between the eyes and tell me, 1427 01:18:36,517 --> 01:18:39,206 do I look like a guy who exploits women? 1428 01:18:39,310 --> 01:18:41,827 Of course, I've got nothing against 1429 01:18:41,931 --> 01:18:43,965 accepting a little present, now and then. 1430 01:18:44,068 --> 01:18:45,275 You know what I mean? -Sure. 1431 01:18:45,379 --> 01:18:46,793 Hey, look. Can you give me any help? 1432 01:18:46,896 --> 01:18:48,241 -I'll tell you one thing for sure. 1433 01:18:48,344 --> 01:18:51,000 It was nobody in my bank, so long. 1434 01:18:51,103 --> 01:18:53,034 We don't play those games. 1435 01:18:54,310 --> 01:18:57,068 It must have been some rich guy. 1436 01:18:57,172 --> 01:18:59,413 You know, a gentleman. 1437 01:18:59,517 --> 01:19:02,655 They're the ones that get those kinds of ideas. 1438 01:19:05,310 --> 01:19:07,931 -So you see these guys have a particular code of honor, 1439 01:19:08,034 --> 01:19:12,172 which is very different from anything anybody else has. 1440 01:19:12,275 --> 01:19:13,413 And this particular guy... 1441 01:19:13,517 --> 01:19:15,758 -That man's been following us for hours. 1442 01:19:15,862 --> 01:19:19,137 -He's Morosini's man. He's our bodyguard. 1443 01:19:21,517 --> 01:19:23,551 So anyway, it would be appear that this guy, 1444 01:19:23,655 --> 01:19:25,896 "So Long," has got a kind of... 1445 01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,965 Hey, taxi! 1446 01:19:28,068 --> 01:19:31,137 -Oh, well, I feel like walking. -Excellent. 1447 01:19:31,241 --> 01:19:33,689 -So Long's philosophy is that he expects everything from women 1448 01:19:33,793 --> 01:19:35,241 and nothing from men. 1449 01:19:37,896 --> 01:19:39,241 Stop! Stop! 1450 01:19:39,344 --> 01:19:41,586 No! No! 1451 01:19:47,137 --> 01:19:48,551 -Come on. Run! 1452 01:19:56,068 --> 01:19:58,379 -Alright, you wait here. 1453 01:20:07,448 --> 01:20:10,517 -Come on. Quick. It's me they are after. 1454 01:20:10,620 --> 01:20:11,965 You can get away. Call Morosini. 1455 01:20:12,068 --> 01:20:14,551 -Run. 1456 01:23:09,482 --> 01:23:11,655 -Hey, there's a guy with a gun after me. 1457 01:23:11,758 --> 01:23:13,965 -I don't see anyone. -Look, there he is. 1458 01:23:14,068 --> 01:23:16,000 -Where is he, huh? 1459 01:24:24,620 --> 01:24:27,724 -Mrs. Johnson! 1460 01:24:27,827 --> 01:24:30,275 Mrs. Johnson! 1461 01:24:30,379 --> 01:24:31,965 Mrs. Johnson! 1462 01:24:32,068 --> 01:24:34,482 -Excuse me. Have you seen a man with a yellow jacket 1463 01:24:34,586 --> 01:24:36,551 and a blue cap? -Er, yes, sir. 1464 01:24:36,655 --> 01:24:39,655 -Where did he go? -In there. 1465 01:25:03,344 --> 01:25:05,000 -Come on now, you guys. 1466 01:25:05,103 --> 01:25:06,620 It's about time we began talking 1467 01:25:06,724 --> 01:25:08,793 about some of the problems we face. 1468 01:25:08,896 --> 01:25:12,000 Oh, come on! Come on! Pipe down will you. 1469 01:25:12,103 --> 01:25:14,620 There's the problem of insurance coverage 1470 01:25:14,724 --> 01:25:17,034 and indemnity for permanent disability. 1471 01:25:17,137 --> 01:25:19,482 Oh, come on, you guys! Come on, listen to me. 1472 01:25:21,551 --> 01:25:23,172 -He had a glass jaw. 1473 01:25:47,310 --> 01:25:50,241 -So the man in the yellow jacket trying to kill Sam Dalmas 1474 01:25:50,344 --> 01:25:52,034 is Reggie Nalder, 1475 01:25:52,137 --> 01:25:53,448 and the way he was cast in the movie 1476 01:25:53,551 --> 01:25:56,068 is that Dario Argento saw him, 1477 01:25:56,172 --> 01:25:58,310 by sheer chance on the street, 1478 01:25:58,413 --> 01:26:01,620 recognized him as the assassin in Alfred Hitchcock's 1479 01:26:01,724 --> 01:26:03,275 "The Man Who Knew Too Much" 1480 01:26:03,379 --> 01:26:05,655 and thought, "Wow, if that's really him, 1481 01:26:05,758 --> 01:26:08,275 who better than to hire as the hitman in a yellow jacket?" 1482 01:26:08,379 --> 01:26:11,551 So he actually stalked him, chatted him up, 1483 01:26:11,655 --> 01:26:15,793 and despite Nalder's hesitation, he hired him for the role. 1484 01:26:15,896 --> 01:26:19,379 Okay, the Battle for the Black Glove continues. 1485 01:26:19,482 --> 01:26:21,034 Bava versus Argento. 1486 01:26:21,137 --> 01:26:23,551 And the next topic is music. 1487 01:26:23,655 --> 01:26:25,931 If you're wondering how you get Ennio Morricone 1488 01:26:26,034 --> 01:26:28,275 to do the score for your very first movie, 1489 01:26:28,379 --> 01:26:31,517 the answer is, "A," you work on Sergio Leone's 1490 01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:34,206 "Once Upon a Time in the West" as a screenwriting assistant 1491 01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:35,758 and, probably more important, 1492 01:26:35,862 --> 01:26:38,655 "B," you have a daddy who's an influential movie producer. 1493 01:26:38,758 --> 01:26:40,689 One thing we should probably point out 1494 01:26:40,793 --> 01:26:43,241 is that the budget for "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" 1495 01:26:43,344 --> 01:26:45,103 was about $500,000, 1496 01:26:45,206 --> 01:26:46,586 and the budget for "Blood and Black Lace" 1497 01:26:46,689 --> 01:26:48,379 was about half of that. 1498 01:26:48,482 --> 01:26:51,965 But one thing that distinguishes both films is exciting music. 1499 01:26:52,068 --> 01:26:55,586 So who did it better? Lars, you're up next. 1500 01:26:55,689 --> 01:26:57,379 -You know, I got to say. 1501 01:26:57,482 --> 01:26:59,103 Ennio Morricone is a household name. 1502 01:26:59,206 --> 01:27:01,896 Carlo Rustichelli -- not a household name. 1503 01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:03,344 I think that's safe to say. 1504 01:27:03,448 --> 01:27:05,551 We all know Ennio Morricone. 1505 01:27:05,655 --> 01:27:10,000 But what we may not really know unless we're experts, 1506 01:27:10,103 --> 01:27:11,793 you know, which we all are, 1507 01:27:11,896 --> 01:27:13,655 is that Carlo Rustichelli, 1508 01:27:13,758 --> 01:27:17,517 uh, was an absolute master of multiple styles. 1509 01:27:17,620 --> 01:27:20,965 And I will say Dino Risi, who made "Il Sorpasso," 1510 01:27:21,068 --> 01:27:22,310 thought he was good enough for his movie, 1511 01:27:22,413 --> 01:27:23,827 which is now a masterpiece. 1512 01:27:23,931 --> 01:27:25,758 Clearly the Criterion Collection and everything. 1513 01:27:25,862 --> 01:27:29,931 Billy Wilder, who I think we might all agree 1514 01:27:30,034 --> 01:27:31,379 knew a thing or two about movies, 1515 01:27:31,482 --> 01:27:33,413 hired Carlo Rustichelli for "Avanti!" 1516 01:27:33,517 --> 01:27:35,551 So Rustichelli really knew his stuff. 1517 01:27:35,655 --> 01:27:40,275 Now, Argento -- a portrait in efficiency, I will say. 1518 01:27:40,379 --> 01:27:42,517 Morricone. 1519 01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:46,517 Morricone was able to go in and go to the piano, 1520 01:27:46,620 --> 01:27:48,241 write a couple of figures, 1521 01:27:48,344 --> 01:27:52,655 throw it to his assistant, Bruno Nicolai, 1522 01:27:52,758 --> 01:27:55,586 and say, "Bruno, go do the score. I'm going to go..." 1523 01:27:55,689 --> 01:27:57,310 And he had some other stuff he had to do. 1524 01:27:57,413 --> 01:27:58,965 Do grocery shopping. 1525 01:27:59,068 --> 01:28:00,827 -Bruno Nicolai would actually go through and... 1526 01:28:07,758 --> 01:28:09,275 -Right. -Okay. 1527 01:28:09,379 --> 01:28:12,379 -Enough of that. -Time's up, Lars. Okay. 1528 01:28:12,482 --> 01:28:14,379 -Given the importance of music to the giallo, 1529 01:28:14,482 --> 01:28:16,275 which filmmaker had the better score? 1530 01:28:16,379 --> 01:28:17,758 Sam, rebuttal. 1531 01:28:17,862 --> 01:28:19,758 -Uh, it's Argento. It's Morricone. 1532 01:28:19,862 --> 01:28:23,586 Uh, again, this is the film that crystallized 1533 01:28:23,689 --> 01:28:25,310 what the giallo is and would become. 1534 01:28:25,413 --> 01:28:29,241 And Morricone's score, fusing jazz and rock, builds... 1535 01:28:29,344 --> 01:28:32,034 You can see it building to all of the folks that would come in, 1536 01:28:32,137 --> 01:28:35,137 uh, most notably Goblin, where it would go from there. 1537 01:28:35,241 --> 01:28:36,551 I think it's so clear. 1538 01:28:36,655 --> 01:28:39,448 The music is beautiful. It's listenable. It's exciting. 1539 01:28:39,551 --> 01:28:42,793 It feeds into the suspense in a way that I don't think it does 1540 01:28:42,896 --> 01:28:44,620 in "Blood and Black Lace." 1541 01:28:44,724 --> 01:28:47,482 It's easy. It's Morricone. -And Nicolai. 1542 01:28:47,586 --> 01:28:49,655 Let's -- Can we just give Bruno Nicolai some credit here? 1543 01:28:49,758 --> 01:28:51,517 -Bruno Nicolai needs his due. -Yeah. 1544 01:28:51,620 --> 01:28:54,310 Bruno Nicolai was doing a lot of the work 1545 01:28:54,413 --> 01:28:55,931 on this kind of stuff. 1546 01:28:56,034 --> 01:28:58,206 I mean, Morricone -- wonderful at selecting themes, 1547 01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:59,862 wonderful at giving a general mood to this, 1548 01:28:59,965 --> 01:29:01,620 but we really aren't talking about Bruno Nicolai 1549 01:29:01,724 --> 01:29:03,448 as the composer to that stuff. 1550 01:29:03,551 --> 01:29:05,517 And he did a fine job. It's okay. 1551 01:29:05,620 --> 01:29:08,103 It works in the context of that film. 1552 01:29:08,206 --> 01:29:10,034 Uh, but I think you look at Carlo Rustichelli 1553 01:29:10,137 --> 01:29:11,862 and you see what he was doing with popular music, 1554 01:29:11,965 --> 01:29:14,103 with Latin beats, with bossa nova beats. 1555 01:29:14,206 --> 01:29:15,482 He's really capturing 1556 01:29:15,586 --> 01:29:18,103 the sophistication of the time period. 1557 01:29:18,206 --> 01:29:20,862 He's really capturing these, uh, cosmopolitan... 1558 01:29:22,517 --> 01:29:23,827 ...morally empty, uh, existential... 1559 01:29:23,931 --> 01:29:25,965 -Listen to the whistle! -Let him finish. Let him finish. 1560 01:29:26,068 --> 01:29:27,310 -You said 10 seconds! 1561 01:29:27,413 --> 01:29:29,137 -...alienated people. Okay. No. I got it. 1562 01:29:29,241 --> 01:29:30,310 -No, no. 1563 01:29:30,413 --> 01:29:31,448 -I just needed enough time to win. 1564 01:29:31,551 --> 01:29:33,379 Do you think -- 1565 01:29:33,482 --> 01:29:36,448 Do you think that if giallo had happened six years earlier, 1566 01:29:36,551 --> 01:29:39,172 all the scores would have been jazz scores? 1567 01:29:39,275 --> 01:29:41,965 -Well, I think all the scores that needed to convey 1568 01:29:42,068 --> 01:29:46,000 a sort of aristocratic alienation and emptiness would. 1569 01:29:46,103 --> 01:29:48,206 Because that was really what Rustichelli is doing. 1570 01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:49,586 It's very much like "Il Sorpasso." 1571 01:29:49,689 --> 01:29:51,241 What he's doing there is he's conveying 1572 01:29:51,344 --> 01:29:55,068 an empty world of broken and aimless 1573 01:29:55,172 --> 01:29:58,724 and spiritually, uh, you know, corrupt people. 1574 01:29:58,827 --> 01:30:01,103 -Okay. -Yay. 1575 01:30:01,206 --> 01:30:04,034 -Everybody can talk now. Go ahead. 1576 01:30:04,137 --> 01:30:06,068 -I think that Rustichelli is a composer 1577 01:30:06,172 --> 01:30:08,034 who definitely doesn't get the recognition 1578 01:30:08,137 --> 01:30:10,448 and the appreciation that he deserves from a lot of people 1579 01:30:10,551 --> 01:30:13,689 because obviously Morricone is the easy choice. 1580 01:30:13,793 --> 01:30:17,034 I mean, he's the big name. Everybody knows who he is. 1581 01:30:17,137 --> 01:30:19,413 Tarantino has used his music, you know, 1582 01:30:19,517 --> 01:30:21,758 so it's the easy answer. 1583 01:30:21,862 --> 01:30:23,724 But I think if you dig a little bit deeper, 1584 01:30:23,827 --> 01:30:26,517 you can see the genius of what Rustichelli was doing. 1585 01:30:26,620 --> 01:30:27,620 -And we're digging. -Alright. 1586 01:30:27,724 --> 01:30:29,482 -We're digging. -Alright. 1587 01:30:29,586 --> 01:30:32,620 We're tallying up the landed punches in that exchange. 1588 01:30:32,724 --> 01:30:35,689 But I want to just mention that Inspector Morosini 1589 01:30:35,793 --> 01:30:40,551 is played by Enrico Maria Salerno, 1590 01:30:40,655 --> 01:30:42,586 who was also well known as an actor, 1591 01:30:42,689 --> 01:30:45,137 but was also known as a guy who collaborated with the fascists 1592 01:30:45,241 --> 01:30:48,862 during World War II and served prison time because of that. 1593 01:30:50,620 --> 01:30:53,896 We're going back to the movie. Roll the film. And Tony Musante -- 1594 01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,034 Oh, I wanted to talk about that. Tony Musante is the actor playing Sam Dalmas, 1595 01:30:58,137 --> 01:31:00,448 and he's in just about every scene in the movie, 1596 01:31:00,551 --> 01:31:02,103 and he's one of several actors 1597 01:31:02,206 --> 01:31:05,379 that Dario Argento did not get along with in his long career. 1598 01:31:05,482 --> 01:31:09,172 But Musante was the first one that he didn't get along with, 1599 01:31:09,275 --> 01:31:11,586 and it seems to be because he was a New York method actor 1600 01:31:11,689 --> 01:31:13,379 and kind of quirky. 1601 01:31:13,482 --> 01:31:15,206 And he showed up at Argento's apartment one night 1602 01:31:15,310 --> 01:31:17,172 at 3:00 a.m., pounding on the door, 1603 01:31:17,275 --> 01:31:18,931 wanting to discuss the movie, 1604 01:31:19,034 --> 01:31:22,137 and Argento was terrified and never forgave him. 1605 01:31:22,241 --> 01:31:23,379 Never. 1606 01:31:23,482 --> 01:31:24,827 In the '90s, when they started having 1607 01:31:24,931 --> 01:31:26,241 retrospective screenings 1608 01:31:26,344 --> 01:31:27,551 of "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" 1609 01:31:27,655 --> 01:31:29,620 at prestigious film festivals... 1610 01:31:29,724 --> 01:31:32,551 Maybe you guys showed it at the Alamo. 1611 01:31:32,655 --> 01:31:35,344 Um, Argento would make sure all the actors 1612 01:31:35,448 --> 01:31:38,827 except Tony Musante were invited to the screenings, 1613 01:31:38,931 --> 01:31:40,482 and he was kind of proud of the fact 1614 01:31:40,586 --> 01:31:43,241 that he still felt that way after 30-plus years. 1615 01:31:43,344 --> 01:31:46,137 That's how much he did not like Tony Musante. 1616 01:31:46,241 --> 01:31:48,896 Wow. Brutal. 1617 01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:50,103 -Argento... 1618 01:31:51,586 --> 01:31:54,206 Argento -- He's a complicated guy. 1619 01:31:54,310 --> 01:31:55,655 -That's true. -Yeah. 1620 01:31:55,758 --> 01:31:58,379 -I mean, he's not that complicated. 1621 01:31:58,482 --> 01:32:00,482 -Okay. Anyway, Tony Musante made 1622 01:32:00,586 --> 01:32:01,965 quite a few movies in Italy, 1623 01:32:02,068 --> 01:32:04,103 but he never quite broke through as a star. 1624 01:32:04,206 --> 01:32:08,344 He worked in theater most of his life, died in 2013, 1625 01:32:08,448 --> 01:32:11,137 but he was quite good at not remembering 1626 01:32:11,241 --> 01:32:13,689 what he saw at the art gallery. 1627 01:32:13,793 --> 01:32:15,689 -Yes, he was. -At the end, 1628 01:32:15,793 --> 01:32:17,206 I'll explain why that's important. 1629 01:32:17,310 --> 01:32:19,862 Actually, I'll let Team Bava explain why that's important. 1630 01:32:19,965 --> 01:32:23,310 Because I'm going to go right down the middle on this. 1631 01:32:23,413 --> 01:32:26,034 But, uh, right down the middle is boring, 1632 01:32:26,137 --> 01:32:28,172 and so that's why we're going to decide tonight, 1633 01:32:28,275 --> 01:32:31,068 once and for all, who wins this battle. 1634 01:32:31,172 --> 01:32:36,000 And the score is Argento, 18, Bava, 15. 1635 01:32:40,586 --> 01:32:43,448 -Explain your logic. What's your reasoning? Why? 1636 01:32:43,551 --> 01:32:45,517 -Well, that was a draw. 1637 01:32:45,620 --> 01:32:47,103 That was a sheer draw. 1638 01:32:47,206 --> 01:32:48,689 I mean, it's like we were talking about music 1639 01:32:48,793 --> 01:32:50,793 from two different worlds 1640 01:32:50,896 --> 01:32:53,793 and both made a good argument for their team. 1641 01:32:53,896 --> 01:32:56,275 -Good work. -That was a 5-5 round. 1642 01:33:14,344 --> 01:33:17,241 -He died without regaining consciousness. 1643 01:33:17,344 --> 01:33:19,172 Fractured spine and skull. 1644 01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,103 Do you think you could recognize him? 1645 01:33:26,172 --> 01:33:28,000 -I didn't see his face clearly. 1646 01:33:30,448 --> 01:33:32,758 -I want every man at that convention tracked down. 1647 01:33:32,862 --> 01:33:34,241 I don't care a damn where they are. 1648 01:33:34,344 --> 01:33:36,137 I want photographs, criminal records, 1649 01:33:36,241 --> 01:33:38,034 all the particulars you can dig out for me right here going. 1650 01:33:38,137 --> 01:33:40,793 Oh, and one other thing. I want two of our top men 1651 01:33:40,896 --> 01:33:42,344 detailed to cover the two behind me. 1652 01:33:42,448 --> 01:33:44,793 They are to be watched day and night. 1653 01:33:47,896 --> 01:33:50,862 I'm very sorry to have got you into this mess. 1654 01:33:50,965 --> 01:33:53,068 Take my advice. 1655 01:33:53,172 --> 01:33:55,413 Go back to the United States. 1656 01:33:57,275 --> 01:33:59,931 -I feel that I'm getting closer to the truth every minute. 1657 01:34:01,551 --> 01:34:04,551 The murderer is obviously of the same opinion. 1658 01:34:04,655 --> 01:34:06,862 That's why he's trying to kill me. 1659 01:34:08,103 --> 01:34:11,103 The more he tries, the more he risks discovery. 1660 01:34:12,827 --> 01:34:16,586 -Stop. Let's see your driver's license. 1661 01:34:25,724 --> 01:34:27,413 -I'm trying to arrange things 1662 01:34:27,517 --> 01:34:29,344 so we can spend a weekend together. 1663 01:34:30,931 --> 01:34:33,137 I love you. -Me too. 1664 01:34:37,931 --> 01:34:41,103 -Bye. -Bye, Gina. 1665 01:36:06,689 --> 01:36:08,724 Aah! 1666 01:36:33,275 --> 01:36:37,551 -Those...sons of bitches. 1667 01:36:37,655 --> 01:36:41,241 They really tried to get you so long. 1668 01:36:41,344 --> 01:36:42,517 -Yeah. 1669 01:36:42,620 --> 01:36:44,275 And I want to find him. 1670 01:36:44,379 --> 01:36:47,551 -Yeah. Sure. I'll help you so long. 1671 01:36:47,655 --> 01:36:49,241 Um, let me think. 1672 01:36:54,896 --> 01:36:56,689 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1673 01:36:56,793 --> 01:36:59,379 That's it. I know the guy for you. 1674 01:36:59,482 --> 01:37:01,896 -Who? -Um, he ain't cheap, 1675 01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:04,413 but, um, there's nothing he don't know. 1676 01:37:04,517 --> 01:37:05,724 -Okay. 1677 01:37:06,793 --> 01:37:11,068 -Hey. This is strictly between you and me. 1678 01:37:11,172 --> 01:37:14,793 No... 1679 01:37:14,896 --> 01:37:16,137 police so long. -Police. 1680 01:37:16,241 --> 01:37:17,793 -Don't worry. 1681 01:37:21,206 --> 01:37:23,931 -Call the Caramba Pool Hall and ask... 1682 01:37:26,413 --> 01:37:27,896 ...for Faiena. 1683 01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:29,241 Tell him So Long sent you. 1684 01:37:32,068 --> 01:37:33,965 Elevator. 1685 01:37:34,068 --> 01:37:36,172 Get an elevator. Huh? 1686 01:37:36,275 --> 01:37:39,655 -Who are you? -I'm Faiena. 1687 01:37:39,758 --> 01:37:42,034 -Faiena?! Come on in! 1688 01:37:42,137 --> 01:37:43,896 -We couldn't just meet in a bar. 1689 01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,517 Oh, no. Five flights. I gotta walk up and meet. 1690 01:37:49,034 --> 01:37:50,620 Who's that, eh? 1691 01:37:50,724 --> 01:37:52,310 -Oh, she's a friend. You can trust her. 1692 01:37:52,413 --> 01:37:53,586 Here. Sit down. 1693 01:37:53,689 --> 01:37:56,241 No. 1694 01:37:57,896 --> 01:38:01,137 Hey. Now, get this straight. 1695 01:38:01,241 --> 01:38:03,482 -I don't know anything. 1696 01:38:03,586 --> 01:38:05,275 I don't know anybody. 1697 01:38:05,379 --> 01:38:07,896 And I ain't seen anything. 1698 01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:11,275 What do you want to know? 1699 01:38:11,379 --> 01:38:13,448 -The other night, around 11:00, 1700 01:38:13,551 --> 01:38:16,310 someone tried to kill me with a pistol and silencer. 1701 01:38:16,413 --> 01:38:19,689 And he got away and went to the Lux Hotel. 1702 01:38:21,793 --> 01:38:23,034 What's the matter? 1703 01:38:24,172 --> 01:38:25,620 -This place bugged? 1704 01:38:25,724 --> 01:38:28,310 - No. - Now, listen to me. 1705 01:38:28,413 --> 01:38:30,896 There was a convention of ex-prize fighters in the hotel. 1706 01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:32,413 He was dressed like one. 1707 01:38:32,517 --> 01:38:34,482 -You want to turn him in? Is that it? 1708 01:38:34,586 --> 01:38:36,310 -No. I just want to talk. 1709 01:38:36,413 --> 01:38:37,896 -Can't help you. 1710 01:38:38,862 --> 01:38:40,620 -Hundred. 1711 01:38:40,724 --> 01:38:42,275 -Hundred what? 1712 01:38:42,379 --> 01:38:44,172 -100,000. 1713 01:38:44,275 --> 01:38:45,931 -Oh. Yeah. 1714 01:38:49,758 --> 01:38:51,551 -Oh! Come on. 1715 01:38:51,655 --> 01:38:55,103 -30, 40, 60, 70, 80, 90... 1716 01:38:55,206 --> 01:38:56,413 Here. 1717 01:38:58,379 --> 01:38:59,931 -No. Keep it. 1718 01:39:06,310 --> 01:39:09,620 -10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100. 1719 01:39:13,620 --> 01:39:15,103 -Uh, when will I hear from you? 1720 01:39:15,206 --> 01:39:16,758 -Never! 1721 01:39:18,275 --> 01:39:20,413 Maybe tomorrow morning. 1722 01:39:26,620 --> 01:39:27,620 -Hello? 1723 01:39:30,379 --> 01:39:32,172 -Yes? 1724 01:39:32,275 --> 01:39:34,172 -Get smart, Mr. Dalmas. 1725 01:39:34,275 --> 01:39:38,000 Take my advice. Mind your own business. 1726 01:39:38,103 --> 01:39:41,862 Stop playing detective. It's not healthy. 1727 01:39:42,827 --> 01:39:45,310 That was a warning yesterday. 1728 01:39:45,413 --> 01:39:47,000 Wasn't it enough? 1729 01:39:48,655 --> 01:39:50,758 -Uh, what do you suggest I do? 1730 01:39:51,689 --> 01:39:52,965 -Go back to America. 1731 01:39:53,068 --> 01:39:56,103 Forget about the murders. 1732 01:39:56,206 --> 01:39:58,551 There is a limit to my patience. 1733 01:39:58,655 --> 01:40:00,551 -Uh, who's speaking? 1734 01:40:02,137 --> 01:40:03,689 -Is the girl there with you? 1735 01:40:03,793 --> 01:40:05,000 -Yes. 1736 01:40:05,103 --> 01:40:07,620 -She's very young. Very beautiful. 1737 01:40:07,724 --> 01:40:09,586 Would you like her to die? 1738 01:40:09,689 --> 01:40:12,137 Because if you don't drop everything, 1739 01:40:12,241 --> 01:40:13,758 I will kill her. 1740 01:40:24,034 --> 01:40:25,724 Go back to America. 1741 01:40:25,827 --> 01:40:28,448 Forget about the murders. 1742 01:40:28,551 --> 01:40:29,931 There is a limit to... 1743 01:40:38,103 --> 01:40:39,551 -Did you hear that creaking sound? 1744 01:40:39,655 --> 01:40:42,241 -Hm. -I want to know what it is. 1745 01:40:42,344 --> 01:40:44,172 What makes a sound like that? 1746 01:40:45,172 --> 01:40:47,793 It's all we've got to go on. -I'll find out. 1747 01:40:50,206 --> 01:40:51,758 -Well? 1748 01:40:54,137 --> 01:40:56,034 What are you going to do now? 1749 01:40:59,275 --> 01:41:01,172 -I don't know. 1750 01:41:01,275 --> 01:41:03,620 It was simpler when I had only myself to think about. 1751 01:41:05,517 --> 01:41:08,482 Damn painting. There's got to be a lead there somewhere. 1752 01:41:08,965 --> 01:41:11,448 -Maybe the woman looks like the first victim. 1753 01:41:11,551 --> 01:41:14,241 -It's too roughly drawn. Could be anybody. 1754 01:41:29,206 --> 01:41:30,517 -Hello? 1755 01:41:30,620 --> 01:41:33,310 -This is Faiena. Couldn't find out anything. 1756 01:41:33,413 --> 01:41:34,827 But if you're interested, 1757 01:41:34,931 --> 01:41:37,172 there's an ex-fighter named Needles. 1758 01:41:37,275 --> 01:41:39,206 He might possibly know something. 1759 01:41:39,310 --> 01:41:41,517 Lives not far from your place. 1760 01:41:41,620 --> 01:41:44,000 Via Angiolieri 39. 1761 01:41:44,931 --> 01:41:47,586 -Via Angiolieri 39. 1762 01:41:47,689 --> 01:41:49,655 Hello? 1763 01:41:49,758 --> 01:41:51,689 Hello?! 1764 01:42:44,655 --> 01:42:46,241 -Anyone home?! 1765 01:45:09,827 --> 01:45:11,620 -Okay. They always have that shot. 1766 01:45:11,724 --> 01:45:13,448 Both Argento and Bava. 1767 01:45:13,551 --> 01:45:17,000 The shot of the dead person like an object of art. 1768 01:45:17,103 --> 01:45:19,172 Uh, welcome back to the Battle for the Black Glove. 1769 01:45:19,275 --> 01:45:21,517 We had a score correction. 1770 01:45:21,620 --> 01:45:23,655 Uh, we actually -- We got both scores wrong. 1771 01:45:23,758 --> 01:45:26,068 Instead of 18-15, it was 17-13... 1772 01:45:26,172 --> 01:45:27,551 -Whatever. -...because the last round 1773 01:45:27,655 --> 01:45:29,689 was a 5-5 round. 1774 01:45:29,793 --> 01:45:31,172 This is the Battle of the Black Glove. 1775 01:45:31,275 --> 01:45:35,034 Features the smartest people in the world decoding the issue 1776 01:45:35,137 --> 01:45:37,896 what is the giallo foundation film? 1777 01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,413 Uh, is it "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage," 1778 01:45:40,517 --> 01:45:42,310 which we're watching now, 1779 01:45:42,413 --> 01:45:45,310 or is it "Blood and Black Lace" made six years earlier, 1780 01:45:45,413 --> 01:45:47,275 which will be our second feature tonight? 1781 01:45:47,379 --> 01:45:51,172 One thing gialli are known for... 1782 01:45:51,275 --> 01:45:52,517 I like to say "giallos." 1783 01:45:52,620 --> 01:45:54,827 It just sounds weird to me to say "gialli." 1784 01:45:54,931 --> 01:45:58,241 One thing gialli are known for is having a lot of 1785 01:45:58,344 --> 01:46:00,689 rich, psychotic people in the cast. 1786 01:46:00,793 --> 01:46:03,310 Poor psychotic people, too, but not so much. 1787 01:46:03,413 --> 01:46:06,413 But there's the implication that maybe the richer you are 1788 01:46:06,517 --> 01:46:09,620 or the more you're part of the social aristocracy, 1789 01:46:09,724 --> 01:46:11,379 the crazier you are. 1790 01:46:11,482 --> 01:46:13,034 And a lot of people we're seeing in this movie 1791 01:46:13,137 --> 01:46:14,827 tonight seem slightly off. 1792 01:46:14,931 --> 01:46:19,103 You know, the antique-store guy, the art-gallery owner. 1793 01:46:19,206 --> 01:46:22,068 And so, Claire, it's gonna be your turn to start this off. 1794 01:46:22,172 --> 01:46:26,758 Make the argument that nobody does psycho better than Argento. 1795 01:46:26,862 --> 01:46:29,724 -Well, Argento is obsessed with Freud. 1796 01:46:29,827 --> 01:46:31,448 Like, so obsessed with Freud 1797 01:46:31,551 --> 01:46:33,275 that he brags about this pilgrimage 1798 01:46:33,379 --> 01:46:34,620 that he made to Zurich. 1799 01:46:34,724 --> 01:46:36,586 And, like, he saw Freud's couch and everything, 1800 01:46:36,689 --> 01:46:39,517 um, which is really funny. 1801 01:46:39,620 --> 01:46:41,413 And he does this sort of, uh -- 1802 01:46:41,517 --> 01:46:44,379 In every one of his movies, there's the primal trauma. 1803 01:46:44,482 --> 01:46:47,413 He loves to say that, you know, family is the root of all evil. 1804 01:46:47,517 --> 01:46:49,689 And, um -- But these are just factoids. 1805 01:46:49,793 --> 01:46:52,241 I think everybody watching this show kind of knows that. 1806 01:46:52,344 --> 01:46:56,137 Uh, and I love the implication that rich people -- 1807 01:46:56,241 --> 01:46:59,482 Listen, if you're poor, you need to spend your time and energy 1808 01:46:59,586 --> 01:47:00,896 working for a living. 1809 01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:02,068 If you're rich, you have time 1810 01:47:02,172 --> 01:47:04,965 to cultivate disgusting perversions. 1811 01:47:05,068 --> 01:47:07,310 But, also, this really has to do again with, like, 1812 01:47:07,413 --> 01:47:12,137 the, um -- an eruption of rage, a kind of, uh, rupturing 1813 01:47:12,241 --> 01:47:15,793 between the past and the emerging savage future. 1814 01:47:15,896 --> 01:47:17,689 I think that this is what's really happening 1815 01:47:17,793 --> 01:47:19,275 in "Bird with the Crystal Plumage," 1816 01:47:19,379 --> 01:47:21,172 that, you know, you've got it set in kind of, 1817 01:47:21,275 --> 01:47:24,896 like, the seat of high culture and fine art for the West. 1818 01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,344 And then something totally disgusting 1819 01:47:27,448 --> 01:47:29,379 is happening in among there. 1820 01:47:29,482 --> 01:47:31,655 -With, uh, "Blood and Black Lace," 1821 01:47:31,758 --> 01:47:34,344 it's a little, you know -- it's kind of stuck in the past. 1822 01:47:34,448 --> 01:47:36,551 It's almost more like a gothic drama or something. 1823 01:47:36,655 --> 01:47:38,103 And then Lars was good enough... 1824 01:47:38,206 --> 01:47:39,482 -Are you blowing the whistle, Darcy? 1825 01:47:39,586 --> 01:47:41,379 -'Cause I like what she's saying. 1826 01:47:41,482 --> 01:47:43,137 Thank you. 1827 01:47:43,241 --> 01:47:44,931 Alright. Time is up, Claire. 1828 01:47:45,034 --> 01:47:47,413 Sorry. Team Bava now has the right of reply. 1829 01:47:47,517 --> 01:47:49,137 That would be you, Troy. 1830 01:47:49,241 --> 01:47:51,655 -Yeah, I think the -- Uh, it is true to say 1831 01:47:51,758 --> 01:47:52,931 that Argento is the one 1832 01:47:53,034 --> 01:47:54,586 who brings in the armchair Freud. 1833 01:47:54,689 --> 01:47:56,482 You know, he goes that route. 1834 01:47:56,586 --> 01:47:58,758 Whereas Bava was a lot more interested in the whole idea 1835 01:47:58,862 --> 01:48:00,586 of sort of greed. 1836 01:48:00,689 --> 01:48:03,275 And, uh, there is a political aspect to these films, 1837 01:48:03,379 --> 01:48:07,413 definitely, that they are sort of talking about the idle rich, 1838 01:48:07,517 --> 01:48:08,931 you know, the corruption among the rich 1839 01:48:09,034 --> 01:48:10,482 and all that sort of thing. 1840 01:48:10,586 --> 01:48:12,068 And very often, you know, the -- 1841 01:48:12,172 --> 01:48:14,551 the upper crust is depicted very negatively. 1842 01:48:14,655 --> 01:48:16,689 Uh, but what Bava's films are about -- 1843 01:48:16,793 --> 01:48:18,758 I find even more disturbing, personally, 1844 01:48:18,862 --> 01:48:20,758 than the sort of Freudian stuff -- 1845 01:48:20,862 --> 01:48:22,517 is this element of greed, you know? 1846 01:48:22,620 --> 01:48:26,275 The idea that people will -- As we know. 1847 01:48:26,379 --> 01:48:28,482 Pick up a newspaper. You see it every day. 1848 01:48:28,586 --> 01:48:30,724 People will do anything in order to get ahead. 1849 01:48:30,827 --> 01:48:33,103 People will do anything in order to, uh, 1850 01:48:33,206 --> 01:48:35,172 you know, swell their banks a little bit further. 1851 01:48:35,275 --> 01:48:36,931 So I find that that element, 1852 01:48:37,034 --> 01:48:40,241 although it's not what would become typical in gialli 1853 01:48:40,344 --> 01:48:43,172 in the 1970s, it is nevertheless, I think, 1854 01:48:43,275 --> 01:48:44,758 a very disturbing aspect. 1855 01:48:44,862 --> 01:48:46,724 -Alright. Time is up for you, Troy. 1856 01:48:46,827 --> 01:48:50,000 Now anybody can talk. Go for it, guys. 1857 01:48:50,103 --> 01:48:51,793 -I think it's disturbing, 1858 01:48:51,896 --> 01:48:54,137 the nature of greed, the nature of corruptive power. 1859 01:48:54,241 --> 01:48:58,344 But on screen they tend to play it simply deceitful, 1860 01:48:58,448 --> 01:49:00,448 whereas in Argento's films they're much more 1861 01:49:00,551 --> 01:49:02,379 characteristically exciting to watch. 1862 01:49:02,482 --> 01:49:04,448 They're weirder. They're kookier. They're funnier to be around. 1863 01:49:04,551 --> 01:49:06,137 -Right, and this is the kind of thing 1864 01:49:06,241 --> 01:49:08,000 that people start describing 1865 01:49:08,103 --> 01:49:09,896 when you ask them what a giallo is. 1866 01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,620 Motivations like greed and being in love with the wrong person 1867 01:49:13,724 --> 01:49:15,482 or being a drug addict or something 1868 01:49:15,586 --> 01:49:17,793 are frankly sort of mundane. 1869 01:49:17,896 --> 01:49:19,931 And the problem for me really 1870 01:49:20,034 --> 01:49:22,413 is that they're -- they're kind of timeless. 1871 01:49:22,517 --> 01:49:24,379 And what's really interesting in the giallo 1872 01:49:24,482 --> 01:49:27,275 is some kind of conflict between tradition, 1873 01:49:27,379 --> 01:49:30,172 like, let's say, embodied by the aristocracy, 1874 01:49:30,275 --> 01:49:32,103 and what's coming out. 1875 01:49:32,206 --> 01:49:34,275 What's coming out of the Years of Lead in Italy? 1876 01:49:34,379 --> 01:49:37,655 What's coming after the student protests in the late '60s? 1877 01:49:37,758 --> 01:49:39,103 What's coming -- 1878 01:49:39,206 --> 01:49:40,620 What kinds of frustration and rage 1879 01:49:40,724 --> 01:49:42,896 are coming out when women's liberation starts to happen? 1880 01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:45,241 And I think that's really what you see in Argento's movies 1881 01:49:45,344 --> 01:49:47,896 that makes them special, and most gialli 1882 01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,689 that are really bold and stick with you 1883 01:49:50,793 --> 01:49:53,413 and seem emblematic of the genre, 1884 01:49:53,517 --> 01:49:54,655 they have this quality. 1885 01:49:54,758 --> 01:49:56,758 -But who does psycho better? 1886 01:49:56,862 --> 01:49:58,620 Are you guys saying that Bava does psycho better? 1887 01:49:58,724 --> 01:50:00,172 -I think he does, yes. 1888 01:50:00,275 --> 01:50:03,758 I think he cuts to the root of, uh, you know, greed 1889 01:50:03,862 --> 01:50:07,724 and that idea of, you know, the destruction of beauty 1890 01:50:07,827 --> 01:50:09,379 and, you know, the sort of senseless rage 1891 01:50:09,482 --> 01:50:11,206 that people have. 1892 01:50:11,310 --> 01:50:12,965 People who have nothing better to do with their lives 1893 01:50:13,068 --> 01:50:15,655 except go around and just try to get richer and richer. 1894 01:50:15,758 --> 01:50:17,551 -You don't really know who the psycho is 1895 01:50:17,655 --> 01:50:19,724 until the movie's over, right? 1896 01:50:19,827 --> 01:50:22,103 You -- Everyone is a secret psycho. 1897 01:50:22,206 --> 01:50:24,517 -Well, there's a lot of neurotics all throughout the film. 1898 01:50:24,620 --> 01:50:26,862 You know, in "Blood and Black Lace," 1899 01:50:26,965 --> 01:50:29,172 everybody's hiding a secret of some kind or another. 1900 01:50:29,275 --> 01:50:30,862 -Alright, well, we'll take a moment 1901 01:50:30,965 --> 01:50:33,655 to consider the evidence here. 1902 01:50:33,758 --> 01:50:36,862 I think that was another 5-5 round, actually. 1903 01:50:43,620 --> 01:50:48,413 Now we're going to watch one of the most famous and most perplexing sequences in the movie. 1904 01:50:48,517 --> 01:50:51,275 Um, I think it's a trope in Argento 1905 01:50:51,379 --> 01:50:53,758 that the protagonist always has to go 1906 01:50:53,862 --> 01:50:56,310 into the countryside at some point. 1907 01:50:56,413 --> 01:50:58,206 Is that right? Am I right about that? 1908 01:50:58,310 --> 01:51:00,586 There's always a scene that's, like, away from Rome 1909 01:51:00,689 --> 01:51:02,344 or away from Milan or wherever. 1910 01:51:02,448 --> 01:51:03,862 It's out in the country. 1911 01:51:03,965 --> 01:51:05,931 And it has even more eccentric characters out there. 1912 01:51:06,034 --> 01:51:09,551 So roll the movie, and you'll see what I'm talking about. 1913 01:51:10,620 --> 01:51:12,448 I feel sorry for anybody watching tonight 1914 01:51:12,551 --> 01:51:14,068 if this is your first giallo. 1915 01:51:15,482 --> 01:51:17,379 -Or your first time watching this movie. 1916 01:51:17,482 --> 01:51:18,655 Or this show, for that matter. 1917 01:51:18,758 --> 01:51:20,241 -Or watching this show. 1918 01:51:20,344 --> 01:51:22,793 Uh, but we're trying to do what horror fanatics 1919 01:51:22,896 --> 01:51:25,655 always do -- ruining the movie by overanalyzing it. 1920 01:51:25,758 --> 01:51:28,137 -Whoo! You said it, man! 1921 01:51:28,241 --> 01:51:29,793 -You should see the topics -- 1922 01:51:29,896 --> 01:51:32,206 Yeah, you should see the topics I had on our menu 1923 01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:34,724 that were ruled out as too far off the subject. 1924 01:51:34,827 --> 01:51:37,206 -Wow. You thought something was too far off the subject? 1925 01:51:37,310 --> 01:51:39,724 -Yeah, that's how sick we got preparing for this show. 1926 01:51:52,482 --> 01:51:54,344 -Now look at it on the oscilloscope. 1927 01:51:56,206 --> 01:51:58,620 -I wanted you to know how much I enjoyed 1928 01:51:58,724 --> 01:52:00,034 your talk on television just now. 1929 01:52:00,137 --> 01:52:02,172 Who but the person you are all... 1930 01:52:03,172 --> 01:52:06,241 -Alright. Now we listen to the other one. 1931 01:52:10,172 --> 01:52:13,379 -Be smart, Mr. Dalmas. Take my advice. 1932 01:52:13,482 --> 01:52:14,862 Mind your own busin... 1933 01:52:16,482 --> 01:52:18,862 -Notice any difference between the two tapes? 1934 01:52:19,793 --> 01:52:21,551 -Sure. 1935 01:52:21,655 --> 01:52:23,000 The waves on the first machine 1936 01:52:23,103 --> 01:52:24,517 are different from those in the second. 1937 01:52:24,620 --> 01:52:27,413 -Exactly. You see... 1938 01:52:27,517 --> 01:52:31,758 every human voice, no matter how well it's disguised, 1939 01:52:31,862 --> 01:52:33,413 has a characteristic pattern 1940 01:52:33,517 --> 01:52:36,827 of harmonic intensities in the vowel sounds. 1941 01:52:36,931 --> 01:52:38,862 Now, when we analyzed the vowel groups 1942 01:52:38,965 --> 01:52:41,931 of each of these two tapes, we made an unexpected discovery. 1943 01:52:42,034 --> 01:52:44,068 We found that whereas the first group 1944 01:52:44,172 --> 01:52:48,448 registered at 5 decibels on the lower range and 12 high, 1945 01:52:48,551 --> 01:52:51,241 when we came to the second reading, 1946 01:52:51,344 --> 01:52:54,965 we discovered it only barely registered to 4 and 10. 1947 01:52:55,068 --> 01:52:56,448 -And the explanation? 1948 01:52:57,344 --> 01:52:59,965 -The voices don't belong to the same person. 1949 01:53:01,448 --> 01:53:03,689 -Are you sure? -Absolutely. 1950 01:53:03,793 --> 01:53:05,586 -That means there are two killers? 1951 01:53:05,689 --> 01:53:07,551 -It would seem so. 1952 01:53:07,655 --> 01:53:09,379 Um, unless, uh, 1953 01:53:09,482 --> 01:53:11,517 there's only one killer confusing us 1954 01:53:11,620 --> 01:53:13,241 by dragging an accomplice in. 1955 01:53:13,344 --> 01:53:15,413 In that case -- it's only supposition, of course -- 1956 01:53:15,517 --> 01:53:17,931 he was no doubt the one who tried to kill you. 1957 01:53:18,034 --> 01:53:20,310 The one you found murdered. 1958 01:53:20,413 --> 01:53:23,793 -And now we'll listen to the sound you gave us to analyze. 1959 01:53:23,896 --> 01:53:25,655 We isolated the sound and compared it 1960 01:53:25,758 --> 01:53:27,551 with hundreds of similar ones. 1961 01:53:27,655 --> 01:53:29,482 We've exhausted the field of sounds 1962 01:53:29,586 --> 01:53:31,724 produced by industrial machinery, 1963 01:53:31,827 --> 01:53:33,137 factory demolition sites, 1964 01:53:33,241 --> 01:53:36,000 through to electric doors, cranes, 1965 01:53:36,103 --> 01:53:39,310 coin-operated machines, domestic appliances, the lot. 1966 01:53:39,413 --> 01:53:42,379 But so far, we've been unable to equate it. 1967 01:53:44,413 --> 01:53:45,827 -What now? 1968 01:53:45,931 --> 01:53:48,689 -All we can do is keep trying. 1969 01:53:48,793 --> 01:53:50,620 -Okay. Thank you. 1970 01:53:55,137 --> 01:53:57,241 -Sorry I won't be around for the finish. 1971 01:53:57,344 --> 01:53:58,517 -You're leaving? 1972 01:53:58,620 --> 01:54:00,172 -Day after tomorrow. 1973 01:54:01,724 --> 01:54:03,965 I've said that before, haven't I? 1974 01:54:06,793 --> 01:54:08,896 40 pages. All written in the last few days. 1975 01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:10,931 If nothing else, this little adventure 1976 01:54:11,034 --> 01:54:12,965 started me writing again. -Glad to hear it! 1977 01:54:13,068 --> 01:54:15,655 -It's broken me loose. Here. Pack these, too. 1978 01:54:15,758 --> 01:54:18,068 I'm writing frantically again. 1979 01:54:18,172 --> 01:54:20,482 -Whatever happened to those leads you were following up? 1980 01:54:20,586 --> 01:54:22,310 -Not a damn thing. 1981 01:54:22,413 --> 01:54:24,241 Hey. Listen to this. 1982 01:54:27,413 --> 01:54:29,448 This came over the telephone. 1983 01:54:29,551 --> 01:54:31,379 It would have been a great lead 1984 01:54:31,482 --> 01:54:33,344 if we could have figured out what it was. 1985 01:54:34,551 --> 01:54:38,482 -Go back to America. Forget about the murders. 1986 01:54:38,586 --> 01:54:39,827 There is a limit to my patience. 1987 01:54:42,448 --> 01:54:44,551 Is the girl there with you? She's... 1988 01:54:44,655 --> 01:54:46,482 -Hm. -Hey, look! Hold it! 1989 01:54:46,586 --> 01:54:48,448 Let me hear it again, will you? 1990 01:54:51,482 --> 01:54:53,620 -...murders. 1991 01:54:53,724 --> 01:54:55,620 There is a limit to my patience. 1992 01:54:58,689 --> 01:55:00,689 Is the girl there with you? -Well? 1993 01:55:00,793 --> 01:55:03,000 -She's very young. Very... 1994 01:55:03,103 --> 01:55:06,724 -I don't know. It reminds me of something. 1995 01:55:06,827 --> 01:55:09,310 Ah. Oh, I guess I'm wrong. 1996 01:55:09,413 --> 01:55:10,931 -Great. 1997 01:55:13,482 --> 01:55:15,689 Wait a minute. Wait a minute. 1998 01:55:15,793 --> 01:55:17,000 Wait a minute. Leave it. I'll do it. 1999 01:55:17,103 --> 01:55:18,103 -Hey! 2000 01:55:21,448 --> 01:55:23,172 -Ohh! Ow! 2001 01:55:23,275 --> 01:55:26,689 Oh, I don't believe it! 2002 01:55:26,793 --> 01:55:29,413 I just can't believe it. -Believe what, huh? 2003 01:55:29,517 --> 01:55:31,793 -That we're leaving. 2004 01:55:33,758 --> 01:55:36,241 -Listen. Why don't I take the tape? 2005 01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:41,551 -If I think of anything, I'll call you. 2006 01:55:42,689 --> 01:55:45,034 I'll call you, eh? 2007 01:55:46,206 --> 01:55:47,586 So long. 2008 01:55:52,793 --> 01:55:54,344 -Do you know... 2009 01:55:54,448 --> 01:55:57,206 these are the last few hours in this house. 2010 01:55:58,103 --> 01:55:59,758 Ohh. 2011 01:55:59,862 --> 01:56:02,379 Do you really love me? 2012 01:56:02,482 --> 01:56:04,793 Mm? -Sure. Sure. 2013 01:56:04,896 --> 01:56:06,379 How much time have we got? 2014 01:56:06,482 --> 01:56:08,137 -How much what? 2015 01:56:08,241 --> 01:56:09,793 -How long until the plane leaves? 2016 01:56:09,896 --> 01:56:12,379 -Eight hours. Why? 2017 01:56:12,482 --> 01:56:15,034 -Wait. That may be just enough. 2018 01:56:15,137 --> 01:56:17,206 -Hey! What... 2019 01:56:17,310 --> 01:56:19,586 What do you want to do now? 2020 01:56:19,689 --> 01:56:21,103 Sam? 2021 01:56:34,517 --> 01:56:36,413 -Uh. Hello? -Hello? 2022 01:56:36,517 --> 01:56:38,482 Uh, is this the, uh... -Yes. 2023 01:56:38,586 --> 01:56:40,758 -Uh, this is Sam Dalmas speaking. 2024 01:56:40,862 --> 01:56:43,103 I'm the, um -- the American who borrowed the photograph 2025 01:56:43,206 --> 01:56:44,551 of the painting of that murder. 2026 01:56:44,655 --> 01:56:46,620 -Oh, yes. I remember. You were so charming. 2027 01:56:46,724 --> 01:56:48,310 -Ah, yes. Yes. 2028 01:56:48,413 --> 01:56:49,758 Um, can you tell me the name of the artist 2029 01:56:49,862 --> 01:56:51,103 who painted the picture? -Certainly. 2030 01:56:51,206 --> 01:56:53,310 His name is Berto Consalvi. 2031 01:56:53,413 --> 01:56:56,586 -Berto Consalvi. 2032 01:56:57,586 --> 01:57:00,172 Um, can you tell me where I can find him? 2033 01:57:00,275 --> 01:57:02,241 -Yes. He lives in a town not far from here. 2034 01:57:02,344 --> 01:57:03,862 It's about an hour and a half by train. 2035 01:57:03,965 --> 01:57:06,758 -Um, what's the name of it? -Aviano. 2036 01:57:06,862 --> 01:57:10,517 -Aviano. Thank you. Uh, thank you very much. 2037 01:57:10,620 --> 01:57:12,448 -You're welcome. It's a pleasure. 2038 01:57:12,551 --> 01:57:14,724 -An hour and a half by train. I can just make it. 2039 01:57:14,827 --> 01:57:16,586 I've got to talk to that painter! 2040 01:57:16,689 --> 01:57:18,068 Now, that first girl was murdered 2041 01:57:18,172 --> 01:57:19,862 just after she sold a painting of a girl being murdered. 2042 01:57:19,965 --> 01:57:21,586 Now, that can't be a coincidence. 2043 01:57:21,689 --> 01:57:23,068 There's got to be a connection! 2044 01:57:23,172 --> 01:57:25,586 I'll be gone four or five hours. You finish packing. 2045 01:57:25,689 --> 01:57:28,413 There's no need to worry, so long as you don't leave the house. 2046 01:57:28,517 --> 01:57:30,517 There are two detectives watching the front door. 2047 01:57:30,620 --> 01:57:32,517 Bolt the door and don't open it for anyone. 2048 01:57:32,620 --> 01:57:34,413 Mmm! I love you. 2049 01:57:34,517 --> 01:57:37,517 -I never should have believed you! I'm a fool! 2050 01:57:37,620 --> 01:57:39,689 Cut it out! 2051 01:57:39,793 --> 01:57:41,862 Oh, if you need anything -- and you won't -- call Nini. 2052 01:57:41,965 --> 01:57:43,655 You know the phone number. No! 2053 01:57:55,379 --> 01:57:56,862 -Thanks for the lift. 2054 01:57:56,965 --> 01:57:58,206 Would have been some walk. 2055 01:57:58,310 --> 01:57:59,896 -You're welcome. 2056 01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:01,689 If you take my advice, you'll get out of here. 2057 01:58:01,793 --> 01:58:03,137 The man's crazy. 2058 01:58:03,241 --> 01:58:05,241 You never know what'll happen next. 2059 01:58:05,344 --> 01:58:06,448 -Thanks for the advice. 2060 01:58:06,551 --> 01:58:07,689 -Then follow it, huh? 2061 01:58:07,793 --> 01:58:09,379 But in case you're minded to carry on, 2062 01:58:09,482 --> 01:58:11,068 I'm telling you, you needn't go looking for the door. 2063 01:58:11,172 --> 01:58:12,586 It ain't no use. See? 2064 01:58:12,689 --> 01:58:13,862 He's walled up the whole darn building. 2065 01:58:13,965 --> 01:58:15,172 Doors, windows are locked. 2066 01:58:15,275 --> 01:58:17,310 -There's got to be some way of getting in. 2067 01:58:17,413 --> 01:58:19,517 -Yeah, there is, but it doesn't mean he'll let you in. 2068 01:58:19,620 --> 01:58:21,448 I'm telling you, if your face ain't right, he might as soon 2069 01:58:21,551 --> 01:58:23,241 tell you what you can do with it. 2070 01:58:23,344 --> 01:58:24,551 -Huh. 2071 01:58:37,931 --> 01:58:39,965 -Consalvi? 2072 01:58:41,827 --> 01:58:44,103 Berto Consalvi! 2073 01:58:44,206 --> 01:58:46,103 -Go to blazes! 2074 01:58:46,206 --> 01:58:47,931 -I want to buy a painting! 2075 01:58:48,034 --> 01:58:49,586 -What do you want it for? 2076 01:58:50,689 --> 01:58:52,172 -For my house. 2077 01:58:53,482 --> 01:58:55,034 Hey! 2078 01:59:19,793 --> 01:59:21,517 Why did you wall up your house? 2079 01:59:21,620 --> 01:59:24,068 -To keep out the busybodies! 2080 01:59:28,034 --> 01:59:31,241 Nobody gets in here unless I want them to. 2081 01:59:31,344 --> 01:59:33,482 Besides, there's cats. 2082 01:59:44,655 --> 01:59:46,620 Who told you about me? 2083 01:59:46,724 --> 01:59:49,655 -Oh, uh, nobody. I saw one of your paintings. 2084 01:59:49,758 --> 01:59:50,931 I liked it. 2085 01:59:51,034 --> 01:59:53,344 -Huh. What was it? 2086 01:59:53,448 --> 01:59:58,344 -Oh, uh, it was, uh, one about a murderer killing a girl. 2087 01:59:59,758 --> 02:00:03,172 -Bah. I don't do that crap anymore. 2088 02:00:04,965 --> 02:00:08,482 I'm going through a mystical period. 2089 02:00:10,068 --> 02:00:13,103 I only paint mystical scenes. 2090 02:00:13,206 --> 02:00:15,103 -Why? 2091 02:00:15,206 --> 02:00:18,517 -Why? Why? Because I feel mystical! 2092 02:00:18,620 --> 02:00:20,275 If it's any of your damn business! 2093 02:00:20,379 --> 02:00:22,896 -No, no, no, no it's not. 2094 02:00:24,896 --> 02:00:27,448 -What was your inspiration for that painting? 2095 02:00:28,689 --> 02:00:30,862 -You want to eat? 2096 02:00:30,965 --> 02:00:32,724 -Uh, yeah. 2097 02:00:42,275 --> 02:00:45,724 -Oh, that was a real story. 2098 02:00:45,827 --> 02:00:47,965 A long time ago. 2099 02:00:54,586 --> 02:00:56,379 -Uh, fine. 2100 02:00:57,965 --> 02:00:59,551 How long? 2101 02:00:59,655 --> 02:01:03,137 -Oh, ten years, more or less. 2102 02:01:07,413 --> 02:01:11,793 A maniac got hold of a girl I knew. 2103 02:01:15,275 --> 02:01:17,172 Tried to cut her up. 2104 02:01:18,965 --> 02:01:21,137 Just stopped him in time. 2105 02:01:22,724 --> 02:01:24,413 Put him in an asylum for life. 2106 02:01:25,379 --> 02:01:27,000 Huh! 2107 02:01:33,896 --> 02:01:37,103 Ahh. Genius. Heh! 2108 02:01:39,517 --> 02:01:40,931 Hey! 2109 02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:45,034 You want to buy a painting or not? 2110 02:01:45,137 --> 02:01:46,655 -Mm! -Well, do you? 2111 02:01:46,758 --> 02:01:48,379 -Mm. Yeah. 2112 02:01:48,482 --> 02:01:50,310 Sure, sure. -Come with me. 2113 02:01:50,413 --> 02:01:53,758 Mmm! Mmm! 2114 02:01:53,862 --> 02:01:55,758 I got just the thing. 2115 02:01:55,862 --> 02:01:58,310 Early Consalvi. Very rare. Ha! 2116 02:01:59,827 --> 02:02:02,137 Hey! Hey! Quick! Quick! 2117 02:02:02,241 --> 02:02:03,344 Shut the window! Quick! 2118 02:02:03,448 --> 02:02:05,000 Shut the window! Shut the window! 2119 02:02:05,103 --> 02:02:06,620 Hey! 2120 02:02:12,241 --> 02:02:15,068 Ahh! Ha! There you are! 2121 02:02:15,172 --> 02:02:17,413 Gotcha! 2122 02:02:22,758 --> 02:02:23,689 Ha! 2123 02:02:23,793 --> 02:02:26,000 Blasted cats. 2124 02:02:26,103 --> 02:02:28,344 Crafty creatures. 2125 02:02:29,724 --> 02:02:31,655 There. Heh. 2126 02:02:31,758 --> 02:02:35,172 They always manage to find a hole to slip through. 2127 02:02:35,275 --> 02:02:37,068 And they're always away in a flash! 2128 02:02:41,724 --> 02:02:43,482 -Why do you keep 'em in a cage? 2129 02:02:43,586 --> 02:02:46,620 -The less they move, the fatter they get. 2130 02:02:48,862 --> 02:02:50,103 -Why do you want 'em to get fat? 2131 02:02:50,206 --> 02:02:52,482 -Huh? Why do I want them to get fat? 2132 02:02:52,586 --> 02:02:54,896 -Hm. -I eat them. 2133 02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:01,241 -Oh, no. -Why? What's the matter? 2134 02:03:01,344 --> 02:03:03,137 Don't you like cat? 2135 02:03:04,793 --> 02:03:08,034 -I don't know. I never ate any. 2136 02:03:09,965 --> 02:03:14,758 -Never, huh? 2137 02:03:14,862 --> 02:03:16,551 Yeah. Here. Take this one. 2138 02:03:16,655 --> 02:03:19,275 200,000. -Oh, no. 2139 02:03:19,379 --> 02:03:22,448 -No? Alright. 150. 2140 02:03:22,551 --> 02:03:24,448 -Oh, no! 2141 02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:30,931 -A hundred! -Oh, no. 2142 02:03:32,413 --> 02:03:34,413 -50,000! 2143 02:03:37,206 --> 02:03:38,586 Capitalist! 2144 02:03:41,482 --> 02:03:43,827 -Hello? -You still mad at me? 2145 02:03:43,931 --> 02:03:45,724 -Sam, where are you? 2146 02:03:45,827 --> 02:03:48,068 -I'm at the station in Aviano on my way home. 2147 02:03:48,172 --> 02:03:49,551 -How did it go? 2148 02:03:49,655 --> 02:03:52,379 -Uh, well, I talked to him, but I didn't get anywhere. 2149 02:03:52,482 --> 02:03:54,344 Look, there's been a railway strike, 2150 02:03:54,448 --> 02:03:56,034 so I'll be about an hour and a half late. 2151 02:03:56,137 --> 02:03:58,344 -Oh, no! What about the plane, Sam?! 2152 02:03:58,448 --> 02:04:00,758 -Oh, don't worry. I'll be there in time. 2153 02:04:00,862 --> 02:04:02,103 Everything okay? 2154 02:04:02,206 --> 02:04:04,034 -Yes. Carlo telephoned. -Oh? 2155 02:04:04,137 --> 02:04:05,620 -He wanted to talk to you urgently. 2156 02:04:05,724 --> 02:04:06,862 He said he'd discovered something 2157 02:04:06,965 --> 02:04:07,862 that would interest you. 2158 02:04:07,965 --> 02:04:09,655 -What? -He didn't say. 2159 02:04:09,758 --> 02:04:11,862 I told him you'd left me here alone... 2160 02:04:11,965 --> 02:04:14,965 and that I'd have him call you as soon as you get back. 2161 02:05:40,620 --> 02:05:42,758 Sam. 2162 02:05:53,758 --> 02:05:55,379 Sam. 2163 02:05:56,724 --> 02:05:58,241 Sam? 2164 02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:45,275 -Man: You will not leave this house alive. 2165 02:06:50,724 --> 02:06:52,379 -No! 2166 02:06:52,482 --> 02:06:54,896 Help! Help! 2167 02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:56,379 No! 2168 02:06:56,482 --> 02:06:58,241 Ohh! Ohh! 2169 02:06:58,344 --> 02:06:59,931 Help! 2170 02:07:05,275 --> 02:07:07,551 Help! 2171 02:07:36,137 --> 02:07:38,172 Ohh! 2172 02:07:38,275 --> 02:07:39,896 Ohh! 2173 02:07:44,413 --> 02:07:47,034 Ohh! 2174 02:09:17,827 --> 02:09:20,896 -Julia? Julia! 2175 02:09:40,517 --> 02:09:42,172 Julia! 2176 02:09:58,517 --> 02:10:01,517 -Okay, I do hope that during this segment 2177 02:10:01,620 --> 02:10:04,793 at least one of our esteemed panelists will explain to me 2178 02:10:04,896 --> 02:10:07,448 the importance of the psychotic, cat-eating, 2179 02:10:07,551 --> 02:10:10,965 antisocial painter Berto Consalvi, 2180 02:10:11,068 --> 02:10:15,344 played by the great German character actor Mario Adorf. 2181 02:10:15,448 --> 02:10:18,103 Um, Sam Dalmas apparently believes 2182 02:10:18,206 --> 02:10:19,586 that his painting of a murder 2183 02:10:19,689 --> 02:10:22,068 is the whole key to finding the killer, 2184 02:10:22,172 --> 02:10:24,172 and it's obviously a huge side trip 2185 02:10:24,275 --> 02:10:27,379 at the 70-minute mark of the movie. 2186 02:10:27,482 --> 02:10:30,068 What the fuck?! I mean... 2187 02:10:30,172 --> 02:10:33,586 At any rate, as we return to the Battle for the Black Glove, 2188 02:10:33,689 --> 02:10:36,862 let's talk about camerawork, use of color. 2189 02:10:36,965 --> 02:10:39,448 Gialli are famous for being set in beautiful places 2190 02:10:39,551 --> 02:10:41,068 with beautiful people, 2191 02:10:41,172 --> 02:10:45,103 but with lurid colors that somehow undermine the scene. 2192 02:10:45,206 --> 02:10:48,551 So, Troy, um, tell us why Argento does that, 2193 02:10:48,655 --> 02:10:49,965 how he does that, 2194 02:10:50,068 --> 02:10:52,034 why Bava does it better. 2195 02:10:52,137 --> 02:10:54,172 -Well, I think Bava does definitely do it better, 2196 02:10:54,275 --> 02:10:55,827 one of the reasons being 2197 02:10:55,931 --> 02:10:57,724 he has a background as a cinematographer. 2198 02:10:57,827 --> 02:11:01,241 So he was very much in control of the look of his films. 2199 02:11:01,344 --> 02:11:04,241 No matter who's credited on the films as a DP, 2200 02:11:04,344 --> 02:11:06,413 it's always him who's kind of controlling 2201 02:11:06,517 --> 02:11:07,931 the look of the movie. 2202 02:11:08,034 --> 02:11:10,620 So he's very much involved in the color schemes, 2203 02:11:10,724 --> 02:11:14,137 this kind of very -- almost like a fashion spread 2204 02:11:14,241 --> 02:11:16,275 kind of an aesthetic that goes throughout his movies. 2205 02:11:16,379 --> 02:11:18,413 Very vibrant. Very, um... 2206 02:11:18,517 --> 02:11:20,310 Very lush colors that are very unnatural. 2207 02:11:20,413 --> 02:11:23,241 I mean, you'll see things that don't make any logical sense. 2208 02:11:23,344 --> 02:11:25,000 Where is this purple light coming from? 2209 02:11:25,103 --> 02:11:27,586 Where is this sort of green lighting coming from? 2210 02:11:27,689 --> 02:11:29,344 And it has nothing to do with realism. 2211 02:11:29,448 --> 02:11:30,931 It has everything to do with creating 2212 02:11:31,034 --> 02:11:33,862 a specific mood, a specific atmosphere, 2213 02:11:33,965 --> 02:11:37,275 and it takes great taste to be able to do that really well. 2214 02:11:37,379 --> 02:11:39,413 And I think that was something that Bava demonstrated 2215 02:11:39,517 --> 02:11:40,965 throughout his career. 2216 02:11:41,068 --> 02:11:43,206 Also, he had a background as a painter, as well, 2217 02:11:43,310 --> 02:11:46,724 so that's another aspect that's definitely true of him. 2218 02:11:46,827 --> 02:11:49,551 Argento, yeah, he definitely has it in his films. 2219 02:11:49,655 --> 02:11:52,241 Argento is also very visually oriented. 2220 02:11:53,896 --> 02:11:56,655 But I think Bava is the more elegant filmmaker. 2221 02:11:56,758 --> 02:11:58,206 -Okay. 2222 02:11:58,310 --> 02:12:01,034 I think we've hit on a topic that can be discussed endlessly, 2223 02:12:01,137 --> 02:12:03,655 but that is your cue, Claire, to go for it. 2224 02:12:03,758 --> 02:12:05,137 Rebuttal. 2225 02:12:05,241 --> 02:12:06,482 -Listen, fellas. 2226 02:12:06,586 --> 02:12:09,310 I have an art-history degree from Bard College, 2227 02:12:09,413 --> 02:12:13,413 and that means that I am the world's least employable person, 2228 02:12:13,517 --> 02:12:16,344 so I have lots and lots and lots and lots of time 2229 02:12:16,448 --> 02:12:17,862 to think about these things. 2230 02:12:17,965 --> 02:12:19,896 Now, this is almost like -- 2231 02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:22,241 You know, we've been set up and hamstrung by this 2232 02:12:22,344 --> 02:12:24,724 because we all know that Argento is the master 2233 02:12:24,827 --> 02:12:26,896 of florid, feverish colors, 2234 02:12:27,000 --> 02:12:29,931 just not in this side-by-side comparison. 2235 02:12:30,034 --> 02:12:32,000 Argento does something more important here 2236 02:12:32,103 --> 02:12:34,655 that he works up for the rest of his career, 2237 02:12:34,758 --> 02:12:37,413 which is what all great gialli do, right? 2238 02:12:37,517 --> 02:12:40,931 Which is to turn murder into fine art. 2239 02:12:41,034 --> 02:12:43,931 Argento literally has made the art gallery 2240 02:12:44,034 --> 02:12:47,034 and the canvas the scene of the crime. 2241 02:12:47,137 --> 02:12:50,655 And there's like multiple scenes of such crimes in this movie. 2242 02:12:50,758 --> 02:12:53,310 And then the art starts attacking people, 2243 02:12:53,413 --> 02:12:55,482 which goes on to happen, like, 2244 02:12:55,586 --> 02:12:57,965 maybe even more spectacularly in "Tenebrae." 2245 02:12:58,068 --> 02:13:00,068 Uh, and, you know, when there's -- 2246 02:13:00,172 --> 02:13:02,172 as I've been harping on again and again -- 2247 02:13:02,275 --> 02:13:06,034 like, a major moment of cultural revolution, 2248 02:13:06,137 --> 02:13:07,275 where do we first see this? 2249 02:13:07,379 --> 02:13:08,931 You see it in the art world. 2250 02:13:13,931 --> 02:13:16,310 You certainly see it in horror movies. 2251 02:13:16,413 --> 02:13:18,137 -Alright. Time's up. 2252 02:13:18,241 --> 02:13:20,724 So everybody can chime in on what the giallo brought 2253 02:13:20,827 --> 02:13:22,793 to cinematography, 2254 02:13:22,896 --> 02:13:25,862 in which the camera is often one of the characters. 2255 02:13:25,965 --> 02:13:28,137 That's true with both guys, I think. 2256 02:13:28,241 --> 02:13:31,344 And, um -- But I think it works both ways. 2257 02:13:31,448 --> 02:13:35,103 Beautiful women in fancy bras photographed in death. 2258 02:13:35,206 --> 02:13:36,517 Right? 2259 02:13:36,620 --> 02:13:38,586 And then guys like the cat-eating painter 2260 02:13:38,689 --> 02:13:40,758 depicted with glamour shots. 2261 02:13:40,862 --> 02:13:42,931 Right? Okay. Comments? 2262 02:13:43,034 --> 02:13:45,793 -Well, Claire, I appreciate your point. 2263 02:13:45,896 --> 02:13:47,793 A concession, if you will, 2264 02:13:47,896 --> 02:13:49,448 that, uh, "Bird with Crystal Plumage" 2265 02:13:49,551 --> 02:13:51,896 lacks, uh, some of the exciting, 2266 02:13:52,000 --> 02:13:54,862 um, cinematographic elements that Mario Bava 2267 02:13:54,965 --> 02:13:56,586 brings to "Blood and Black Lace." 2268 02:13:56,689 --> 02:13:58,275 And it's big of you to concede the point, 2269 02:13:58,379 --> 02:14:00,068 and I really appreciate it. 2270 02:14:00,172 --> 02:14:03,103 But I do think that when you look at Mario Bava's work, 2271 02:14:03,206 --> 02:14:06,034 the cinematography, uh, the technical aspects of it 2272 02:14:06,137 --> 02:14:08,068 do rise to the front in a way 2273 02:14:08,172 --> 02:14:11,517 that Argento never actually captured. 2274 02:14:11,620 --> 02:14:14,551 We never see that, even in his later works. 2275 02:14:14,655 --> 02:14:17,758 -Well, I think another big thing is budgets. 2276 02:14:17,862 --> 02:14:19,275 You know, when we look at the amount of money 2277 02:14:19,379 --> 02:14:21,034 that was spent on these movies, 2278 02:14:21,137 --> 02:14:23,862 Argento's films have a much bigger canvas to work with. 2279 02:14:23,965 --> 02:14:25,551 You know, whereas Bava was pulling out 2280 02:14:25,655 --> 02:14:27,241 all kinds of incredible things, 2281 02:14:27,344 --> 02:14:29,896 using very hand-crafted, uh, sort of... 2282 02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:32,344 -Wait. Which of these two guys was the rich kid 2283 02:14:32,448 --> 02:14:34,827 who grew up learning how to write checks from his father 2284 02:14:34,931 --> 02:14:37,586 and which was, like, the scrappy filmmaker 2285 02:14:37,689 --> 02:14:38,931 who was on set with his dad 2286 02:14:39,034 --> 02:14:40,620 learning how to do special effects in movies? 2287 02:14:40,724 --> 02:14:42,137 -There you go. -That's Bava, right, 2288 02:14:42,241 --> 02:14:43,517 that was the scrappy kid? 2289 02:14:43,620 --> 02:14:45,310 Okay. Alright. Just making sure. -You said it perfectly. 2290 02:14:45,413 --> 02:14:46,862 -I'd just like to make a note of the fact 2291 02:14:46,965 --> 02:14:48,344 that in this last round of discussion, 2292 02:14:48,448 --> 02:14:50,862 both of you started using the word "big" compulsively, 2293 02:14:50,965 --> 02:14:52,482 and I wonder why that is. 2294 02:14:52,586 --> 02:14:55,620 -Ooh! -Can't help it. Can't help it. 2295 02:14:55,724 --> 02:14:57,206 I mean, I think a lot of it 2296 02:14:57,310 --> 02:14:59,827 comes down to big intellect, big brain. 2297 02:14:59,931 --> 02:15:03,620 Just all the stuff that we think about all the time, you know? 2298 02:15:03,724 --> 02:15:05,758 -Wow! Getting saucy now. -It's natural. It's natural. 2299 02:15:05,862 --> 02:15:07,724 -It comes naturally. -It comes naturally, yes. 2300 02:15:07,827 --> 02:15:09,758 -But Argento's finding these artful frames 2301 02:15:09,862 --> 02:15:11,310 in locations, right? 2302 02:15:11,413 --> 02:15:12,965 "Blood and Black Lace" is beautiful 2303 02:15:13,068 --> 02:15:14,620 but is full of gothic artifice. 2304 02:15:14,724 --> 02:15:16,965 It is full of, as you noted, unmotivated lighting, 2305 02:15:17,068 --> 02:15:18,344 however gorgeous it is. 2306 02:15:18,448 --> 02:15:20,655 When we are in the gallery in "Crystal Plumage," 2307 02:15:20,758 --> 02:15:23,137 he is creating a frame that is kind of unmistakable, 2308 02:15:23,241 --> 02:15:25,551 absolutely astounding through pieces that are already there. 2309 02:15:25,655 --> 02:15:27,344 -And we've all been in art galleries 2310 02:15:27,448 --> 02:15:31,724 that have that bizarre setup with those sliding glass doors. 2311 02:15:31,827 --> 02:15:34,206 -Well, once we win, you'll be locked in it just like him. 2312 02:15:34,310 --> 02:15:36,620 -Yes. Of course. Right. Of course. 2313 02:15:36,724 --> 02:15:39,275 -Oh, snap. I feel like that's a point. 2314 02:15:39,379 --> 02:15:41,310 Okay. 2315 02:15:41,413 --> 02:15:43,000 -If you want to say so. 2316 02:15:43,103 --> 02:15:45,034 -Also, isn't Bava -- 2317 02:15:45,137 --> 02:15:48,241 Didn't Bava occasionally just do matte paintings on his own? 2318 02:15:48,344 --> 02:15:49,517 -He did his own matte paintings. 2319 02:15:49,620 --> 02:15:51,586 -He'd just stop shooting and do a matte painting. 2320 02:15:51,689 --> 02:15:54,896 And he was literally writing on the -- 2321 02:15:55,000 --> 02:15:57,931 He was literally drawing images on the film. 2322 02:15:58,034 --> 02:16:00,034 -Yeah, he didn't get his daddy to sign the checks 2323 02:16:00,137 --> 02:16:01,413 to get somebody else to do it. 2324 02:16:01,517 --> 02:16:02,724 -Bava was a technical -- 2325 02:16:02,827 --> 02:16:04,965 Bava was a technical master all around. 2326 02:16:05,068 --> 02:16:06,827 Uh, Argento was a guy who was able to hire 2327 02:16:06,931 --> 02:16:09,379 these incredible technical masters all around. 2328 02:16:09,482 --> 02:16:11,068 And there's nothing wrong with that. 2329 02:16:11,172 --> 02:16:13,344 But Bava himself was a technical master, 2330 02:16:13,448 --> 02:16:14,620 and Argento certainly was not. 2331 02:16:14,724 --> 02:16:16,482 -Yeah. Stay in your lane. -Okay. 2332 02:16:16,586 --> 02:16:19,034 I'm gonna give a 6-4 to Bava on this. 2333 02:16:26,137 --> 02:16:29,034 Uh, 22 -- No. No. Twenty -- I'm sorry. 2334 02:16:29,137 --> 02:16:31,000 -Now you get it. Thank you. 2335 02:16:31,103 --> 02:16:33,137 -This stuff ain't easy. 2336 02:16:33,241 --> 02:16:37,034 -Yeah, it's gonna end up as, um, 26-24. 2337 02:16:37,137 --> 02:16:38,241 -Are you sure? -26-24. 2338 02:16:38,344 --> 02:16:39,448 -Are you sure about that? -Yes. 2339 02:16:39,551 --> 02:16:41,000 -Alright. -26-24. 2340 02:16:41,103 --> 02:16:43,206 -None of us are math majors. -Ahh. 2341 02:16:43,310 --> 02:16:45,068 And now, as we move quickly toward 2342 02:16:45,172 --> 02:16:48,103 the concluding chapter of "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" 2343 02:16:48,206 --> 02:16:51,413 and as we find out the meaning of the title... 2344 02:16:52,448 --> 02:16:56,586 ...get ready for the controversial twist ending. 2345 02:16:58,413 --> 02:16:59,896 Roll the movie. 2346 02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:02,724 Now, normally we don't have guests stay for the outro 2347 02:17:02,827 --> 02:17:05,206 of the movie, but in this case, it's a necessity. 2348 02:17:05,310 --> 02:17:06,793 And actually, I think it would be a necessity 2349 02:17:06,896 --> 02:17:08,310 with almost any giallo film 2350 02:17:08,413 --> 02:17:11,068 because how many giallos get resolved 2351 02:17:11,172 --> 02:17:13,551 in the last 30 seconds of the movie? 2352 02:17:13,655 --> 02:17:15,620 -A lot. -Ernesto Gastaldi, 2353 02:17:15,724 --> 02:17:18,758 who I consider maybe the finest of all the giallo screenwriters, 2354 02:17:18,862 --> 02:17:23,172 says giallo is a puzzle that must never cheat. 2355 02:17:23,275 --> 02:17:26,379 Everything in the puzzle leads to the reveal at the end, 2356 02:17:26,482 --> 02:17:29,068 and you should never guess the reveal in advance. 2357 02:17:29,172 --> 02:17:31,758 But once you see the reveal, you should say, 2358 02:17:31,862 --> 02:17:33,310 "Oh, yes, it couldn't have been anything else. 2359 02:17:33,413 --> 02:17:34,862 That makes perfect sense." 2360 02:17:34,965 --> 02:17:37,103 So we're going to talk about how well Argento 2361 02:17:37,206 --> 02:17:40,206 does the reveal in his first outing. 2362 02:17:41,241 --> 02:17:44,068 -Also, I love "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage." 2363 02:17:44,172 --> 02:17:45,551 -Well, I know you do. 2364 02:17:45,655 --> 02:17:47,448 We all love "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage." 2365 02:17:47,551 --> 02:17:48,517 -But... -No. No, no. 2366 02:17:48,620 --> 02:17:50,000 I mean the actual bird. 2367 02:17:50,103 --> 02:17:51,758 -Oh, the actual bird? -Yes. 2368 02:17:51,862 --> 02:17:54,862 -The bird in the... Okay. Do they -- 2369 02:17:54,965 --> 02:17:57,724 Do they have a bird with the crystal plumage in the Rome Zoo? 2370 02:17:57,827 --> 02:17:59,344 -They do. -That was the Rome Zoo, right? 2371 02:17:59,448 --> 02:18:00,931 -Yes. -Okay. 2372 02:18:01,034 --> 02:18:02,827 Are the feathers crystal? 2373 02:18:02,931 --> 02:18:05,724 -No, but it's still beautiful. -Alright. 2374 02:18:05,827 --> 02:18:08,517 Ever since you went to the Profondo Rosso bookstore 2375 02:18:08,620 --> 02:18:10,206 and made friends with Luigi Cozzi, 2376 02:18:10,310 --> 02:18:13,310 you've been a goldmine of giallo information. 2377 02:18:13,413 --> 02:18:15,137 -We're best friends, yes. 2378 02:18:15,241 --> 02:18:18,241 Um, who else is gonna do the important detective work? 2379 02:18:18,344 --> 02:18:20,413 -Actually, this panel is so nerdy, I could imagine -- 2380 02:18:20,517 --> 02:18:21,551 -Honestly. -I could imagine 2381 02:18:21,655 --> 02:18:24,000 anybody here in this room. 2382 02:18:24,103 --> 02:18:27,896 I can imagine anybody going to the zoo in Rome 2383 02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:30,896 just to look at the bird with the crystal plumage. 2384 02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:34,724 Because we're horror people. That's what we do, right? 2385 02:18:34,827 --> 02:18:36,758 -Also to see the cast of "Wild Beasts." 2386 02:18:36,862 --> 02:18:38,758 -Yes. That's a very good point. Yes. 2387 02:18:57,551 --> 02:18:58,931 Sam? 2388 02:18:59,931 --> 02:19:01,586 Sam! 2389 02:19:09,379 --> 02:19:11,241 Ohh. 2390 02:19:11,344 --> 02:19:13,137 -How do you feel? 2391 02:19:14,172 --> 02:19:16,517 -Alright. Did they get him? 2392 02:19:16,620 --> 02:19:19,344 - No. - He must have... 2393 02:19:19,448 --> 02:19:21,206 slipped out through the cellar or something. 2394 02:19:21,310 --> 02:19:22,931 -Ohh. 2395 02:19:25,413 --> 02:19:27,586 What time is it? 2396 02:19:27,689 --> 02:19:30,482 Just after 4:30. 2397 02:19:30,586 --> 02:19:33,206 - No! - You slept around the clock. 2398 02:19:40,413 --> 02:19:43,000 -Ah! H-Hey! Peeping Tom! Hey? 2399 02:19:43,103 --> 02:19:45,068 So sorry. 2400 02:19:45,172 --> 02:19:47,103 You were supposed to call me, you know. 2401 02:19:47,206 --> 02:19:48,862 I've got news for you. 2402 02:19:49,724 --> 02:19:51,103 -The phone's been out of order. 2403 02:19:53,241 --> 02:19:57,413 -Ah. I think I finally figured out what that creaking sound is. 2404 02:19:57,517 --> 02:19:59,758 Sam, it's very peculiar. 2405 02:19:59,862 --> 02:20:00,896 -What is it? 2406 02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:02,689 It's the call of Hornitus Nevalis, 2407 02:20:02,793 --> 02:20:05,103 a magnificent bird with long white feathers 2408 02:20:05,206 --> 02:20:07,413 that look like glass. 2409 02:20:07,517 --> 02:20:09,137 -What's so strange about it? 2410 02:20:09,241 --> 02:20:11,034 -Well, the only place in the world 2411 02:20:11,137 --> 02:20:13,965 that bird can live is Northern Siberia. 2412 02:20:19,724 --> 02:20:21,103 Are you sure? 2413 02:20:21,206 --> 02:20:22,206 -Positive. 2414 02:20:24,103 --> 02:20:27,206 -How about a drink, eh? I deserve one. 2415 02:20:30,379 --> 02:20:32,655 In any case, it's almost impossible 2416 02:20:32,758 --> 02:20:35,482 to keep one of those birds alive in captivity. 2417 02:20:36,034 --> 02:20:39,172 In fact, there's only one specimen in the whole of Italy. 2418 02:20:39,275 --> 02:20:40,965 And that has to be kept -- Hey, hey, what are you doing?! 2419 02:20:41,068 --> 02:20:43,068 What's the matter with you? -Wait a minute. Wait a minute. 2420 02:20:43,172 --> 02:20:45,344 You mean there is one here? -Yes. 2421 02:20:45,448 --> 02:20:47,344 That's what I'm trying to tell you. 2422 02:20:47,448 --> 02:20:48,655 It's practically a miracle, 2423 02:20:48,758 --> 02:20:50,310 but they're managing to keep one alive. 2424 02:20:50,413 --> 02:20:51,793 -Where? 2425 02:20:51,896 --> 02:20:53,448 -Now, where else could you keep a rare bird? 2426 02:20:53,551 --> 02:20:54,793 The zoo. 2427 02:20:57,275 --> 02:20:58,793 The cage is over that way. 2428 02:20:58,896 --> 02:21:00,758 Near the back of the zoo. Over there. 2429 02:21:00,862 --> 02:21:02,689 -Hey. Come on. It's quite a walk. 2430 02:21:02,793 --> 02:21:04,896 -Oh, it's not far now. They have to keep it isolated. 2431 02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:06,344 It doesn't get along with the other animals. 2432 02:21:06,448 --> 02:21:07,931 Oh. Over there. 2433 02:21:08,034 --> 02:21:09,137 They're going to have to move it, though. 2434 02:21:09,241 --> 02:21:10,793 It can't even stand the smell of them. 2435 02:21:10,896 --> 02:21:12,482 There it is! 2436 02:21:24,965 --> 02:21:28,000 -Ranieri! He called from his apartment. 2437 02:21:28,103 --> 02:21:30,965 I remember now. The telephone's right next to that window! 2438 02:21:34,793 --> 02:21:36,137 -Monica! 2439 02:21:37,896 --> 02:21:39,827 -Come on! -Come on! Julia! 2440 02:21:49,068 --> 02:21:51,068 Open the door! 2441 02:21:51,172 --> 02:21:52,965 -Right. Leave it to us. 2442 02:21:55,241 --> 02:21:57,172 -Give me the knife! 2443 02:21:58,896 --> 02:22:00,931 -Don't shoot. -Let her go! 2444 02:22:01,034 --> 02:22:02,896 -There's no way out. 2445 02:22:04,241 --> 02:22:06,206 -Give yourself up, Ranieri. 2446 02:22:08,862 --> 02:22:10,413 You can't get away. 2447 02:22:10,517 --> 02:22:12,137 -Drop the knife! 2448 02:22:12,241 --> 02:22:13,793 -No! -Don't move. 2449 02:22:13,896 --> 02:22:15,310 There is no way out. 2450 02:22:15,413 --> 02:22:16,620 -No! 2451 02:22:20,448 --> 02:22:22,241 -Drop the knife. 2452 02:22:23,896 --> 02:22:25,689 -Keep away from me. 2453 02:22:27,034 --> 02:22:28,517 Keep away! 2454 02:22:29,827 --> 02:22:33,689 -That's enough! -What has happened? 2455 02:22:33,793 --> 02:22:36,551 -Where'd he get you? -Julia! Come on! 2456 02:22:46,517 --> 02:22:48,206 Save me! 2457 02:22:49,827 --> 02:22:52,068 Please. Stop. 2458 02:22:52,172 --> 02:22:54,586 I don't want to die! 2459 02:22:54,689 --> 02:22:58,000 -He's slipping. -Help me! I don't want to die! 2460 02:22:59,413 --> 02:23:01,206 -I can't hold it. I can't hold it! 2461 02:23:18,827 --> 02:23:20,482 Yes, it's true. 2462 02:23:20,586 --> 02:23:24,655 I am -- I'm the murderer. 2463 02:23:24,758 --> 02:23:27,241 I killed all of them. 2464 02:23:27,344 --> 02:23:31,827 Please take care of my wife. 2465 02:23:32,965 --> 02:23:35,896 She tried... 2466 02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:37,931 to stop me. 2467 02:23:40,413 --> 02:23:42,517 I loved her. 2468 02:23:58,620 --> 02:24:00,620 -Poor devil. 2469 02:24:00,724 --> 02:24:03,000 I feel sorry for him. 2470 02:24:16,068 --> 02:24:18,344 Morosini here. Put me through to Homicide. 2471 02:24:34,793 --> 02:24:36,827 -You haven't seen the girl I was with, have you? 2472 02:24:36,931 --> 02:24:39,448 -No. She was behind us when we got to the apartment. 2473 02:24:39,551 --> 02:24:42,034 Isn't she here? -No. 2474 02:24:42,137 --> 02:24:43,482 Have you seen her since then? 2475 02:24:43,586 --> 02:24:45,758 -No, I haven't. 2476 02:24:49,724 --> 02:24:51,241 -Thanks. 2477 02:24:57,724 --> 02:24:59,758 -Have you seen a girl come by with long hair, blond? 2478 02:24:59,862 --> 02:25:00,896 -Yeah. She came down a while ago. 2479 02:25:01,000 --> 02:25:02,413 -Are your sure? -Yeah. 2480 02:25:02,517 --> 02:25:03,689 -Which way did she go? 2481 02:25:03,793 --> 02:25:05,482 -She ran off in that direction with two others. 2482 02:25:05,586 --> 02:25:07,206 -Thanks. -Huh. 2483 02:25:17,275 --> 02:25:20,758 -Blood! His head busted open like a watermelon! 2484 02:25:20,862 --> 02:25:22,620 -Excuse me. -Hey? 2485 02:25:22,724 --> 02:25:24,793 -Have you seen a girl go by in that direction with, uh -- 2486 02:25:24,896 --> 02:25:27,689 with long blond hair and a gray raincoat 2487 02:25:27,793 --> 02:25:30,103 come down to about here? -I think so. Yeah. Sure. 2488 02:26:33,862 --> 02:26:36,689 -Excuse me. Have you seen a girl with long, blond hair 2489 02:26:36,793 --> 02:26:38,724 and a gray raincoat down to here? 2490 02:26:38,827 --> 02:26:41,862 -Yes. I saw her go in there. -In that door? 2491 02:26:41,965 --> 02:26:44,344 -That's what I said. 2492 02:26:44,448 --> 02:26:45,758 -Thanks. 2493 02:26:48,586 --> 02:26:50,482 This one here? -Yeah. 2494 02:30:05,172 --> 02:30:08,000 Carlo. Oh, my God! 2495 02:30:08,103 --> 02:30:09,965 What have you done with Julia? 2496 02:30:10,965 --> 02:30:12,689 Answer me! 2497 02:30:45,344 --> 02:30:46,482 -It was you! 2498 02:30:53,275 --> 02:30:55,689 -That's where I went wrong. 2499 02:30:55,793 --> 02:30:57,586 You had the knife in your hand. 2500 02:30:57,689 --> 02:30:59,413 You were trying to kill your husband, 2501 02:30:59,517 --> 02:31:00,896 not the other way around. 2502 02:31:03,000 --> 02:31:05,482 -That's what I knew I'd seen! 2503 02:31:05,586 --> 02:31:08,103 That's what I knew I'd seen! 2504 02:32:19,793 --> 02:32:22,482 -Ohh... 2505 02:32:29,517 --> 02:32:30,758 -Help me. 2506 02:32:36,482 --> 02:32:38,034 Help me! 2507 02:32:54,586 --> 02:32:55,896 Ha! 2508 02:33:26,896 --> 02:33:29,931 Now you're going to die. 2509 02:33:31,482 --> 02:33:33,655 You're going to die. 2510 02:33:35,241 --> 02:33:37,793 You're going to die. 2511 02:33:39,344 --> 02:33:41,034 Like all the others. 2512 02:33:44,344 --> 02:33:46,034 Ohh! 2513 02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:50,689 -Right! Come on. Quick! 2514 02:33:50,793 --> 02:33:54,206 One at each end! That's it! Now lift! 2515 02:33:55,551 --> 02:33:57,379 That's enough. Hold it! No, no, no! 2516 02:33:57,482 --> 02:34:01,620 I'll pull you. Ah. That's it. 2517 02:34:01,724 --> 02:34:05,620 Are you alright, Sam? -H-How'd you find out? 2518 02:34:05,724 --> 02:34:07,103 -Julia. 2519 02:34:08,034 --> 02:34:09,620 -Julia? 2520 02:34:09,724 --> 02:34:11,310 -Ah. 2521 02:34:11,413 --> 02:34:14,448 Yes. She'll be alright. 2522 02:34:14,551 --> 02:34:16,586 And you. You'll be alright too, eh? 2523 02:34:16,689 --> 02:34:19,172 Come on. I'll help you up. 2524 02:34:19,275 --> 02:34:20,793 -As Inspector Morosini, 2525 02:34:20,896 --> 02:34:22,724 who has been in charge of the investigation, 2526 02:34:22,827 --> 02:34:25,068 has told you, the final curtain has fallen 2527 02:34:25,172 --> 02:34:27,068 at last on this tragic affair 2528 02:34:27,172 --> 02:34:29,827 which has kept the whole city in a state of shock. 2529 02:34:29,931 --> 02:34:32,206 Monica Ranieri, hopelessly insane, 2530 02:34:32,310 --> 02:34:34,586 is in custody of the psychiatric hospital. 2531 02:34:34,689 --> 02:34:37,344 Her husband, who loved her not wisely but too well, 2532 02:34:37,448 --> 02:34:38,965 lost his life in a last attempt 2533 02:34:39,068 --> 02:34:41,862 to turn suspicion away from his wife. 2534 02:34:41,965 --> 02:34:43,517 Inspector Morosini, 2535 02:34:43,620 --> 02:34:45,896 can you explain to us what led this poor, 2536 02:34:46,000 --> 02:34:49,862 unbalanced creature to commit these horrible murders? 2537 02:34:52,379 --> 02:34:54,551 Uh. Um. 2538 02:34:54,655 --> 02:34:56,310 Good evening. 2539 02:34:56,413 --> 02:34:58,724 Sorry. 2540 02:34:58,827 --> 02:35:00,827 Well, I, um -- 2541 02:35:00,931 --> 02:35:03,206 I think the person best qualified 2542 02:35:03,310 --> 02:35:06,620 to answer this question is, uh, Professor Rinaldi, 2543 02:35:06,724 --> 02:35:10,482 the well-known psychiatrist who acted as, um, 2544 02:35:10,586 --> 02:35:13,448 as our consultant during the investigation. 2545 02:35:15,448 --> 02:35:17,931 Please, Professor, you would explain, huh? 2546 02:35:18,034 --> 02:35:19,310 -Certainly. 2547 02:35:19,413 --> 02:35:21,689 For the moment, we can only make conjectures. 2548 02:35:21,793 --> 02:35:23,482 Ten years ago, Monica Ranieri, 2549 02:35:23,586 --> 02:35:27,172 who had already evident paranoid tendencies, 2550 02:35:27,275 --> 02:35:31,793 was brutally attacked and suffered severe trauma. 2551 02:35:31,896 --> 02:35:33,517 Nevertheless, she recovered sufficiently 2552 02:35:33,620 --> 02:35:36,034 to return to a normal life. 2553 02:35:36,137 --> 02:35:39,482 Her mental disturbance remained dormant for 10 years 2554 02:35:39,586 --> 02:35:41,655 until the day she came across a painting 2555 02:35:41,758 --> 02:35:43,517 which depicted the horrible scene 2556 02:35:43,620 --> 02:35:45,275 of which she had been the protagonist. 2557 02:35:45,379 --> 02:35:49,137 Her latent madness came to life violent and irresistible. 2558 02:35:49,241 --> 02:35:52,724 Strangely, she did not identify herself with the victim, 2559 02:35:52,827 --> 02:35:54,724 but with her attacker. 2560 02:35:54,827 --> 02:35:57,241 On order to explain the behavior of her husband, 2561 02:35:57,344 --> 02:36:00,689 who attempted murder on various occasions to protect his wife, 2562 02:36:00,793 --> 02:36:04,310 we must assume that he suffered from an induced psychosis. 2563 02:36:04,413 --> 02:36:06,758 He was influenced by his paranoid wife 2564 02:36:06,862 --> 02:36:09,896 to the point of becoming homicidally psychotic himself. 2565 02:36:18,586 --> 02:36:20,586 -I can hear him saying it now. 2566 02:36:20,689 --> 02:36:23,103 "Go to Italy. It's a peaceful country. 2567 02:36:23,206 --> 02:36:24,862 Nothing ever happens there." 2568 02:38:02,241 --> 02:38:04,862 -So, Darcy, you're telling us that you saw an actual 2569 02:38:04,965 --> 02:38:08,241 Hornitus Nevalis in the Rome Zoo? 2570 02:38:08,344 --> 02:38:11,379 -Well, the Hornitus Nevalis doesn't actually exist. 2571 02:38:11,482 --> 02:38:15,241 They used a gray crowned crane. And it's still here. 2572 02:38:15,344 --> 02:38:17,034 -So, really, the movie should have been called 2573 02:38:17,137 --> 02:38:18,862 "The Gray Crowned Crane"? 2574 02:38:18,965 --> 02:38:21,241 -Yes, but it might have hurt the box office. 2575 02:38:21,344 --> 02:38:23,034 -It's not like "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" 2576 02:38:23,137 --> 02:38:26,137 is a "guaranteed, can't wait" title for a film, right? 2577 02:38:26,241 --> 02:38:29,793 So, um, anyway, we are back with the finale of the first half 2578 02:38:29,896 --> 02:38:31,896 of the Battle for the Black Glove. 2579 02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:34,655 And we now know that there were two killers, 2580 02:38:34,758 --> 02:38:36,551 one trying to cover up for the other killer. 2581 02:38:36,655 --> 02:38:39,310 Three killers, if you count the hitman. 2582 02:38:39,413 --> 02:38:42,655 Um, but we know that what Sam Dalmas saw 2583 02:38:42,758 --> 02:38:44,931 on the mezzanine of the art gallery 2584 02:38:45,034 --> 02:38:47,896 was Monica trying to kill her husband, 2585 02:38:48,000 --> 02:38:50,379 not someone trying to kill Monica. 2586 02:38:50,482 --> 02:38:53,206 So for Alberto Ranieri's 2587 02:38:53,310 --> 02:38:55,793 point-of-view death plunge, 2588 02:38:55,896 --> 02:38:58,517 Argento did something that I've never heard of before. 2589 02:38:58,620 --> 02:39:03,482 A camera was dropped six stories onto a concrete sidewalk. 2590 02:39:03,586 --> 02:39:07,068 The camera was destroyed, but the footage survived. 2591 02:39:07,172 --> 02:39:08,689 Boy, that is hardcore. 2592 02:39:08,793 --> 02:39:10,310 And, uh, Monica, by the way, 2593 02:39:10,413 --> 02:39:13,793 was played by the German celebrity beauty Eva Renzi, 2594 02:39:13,896 --> 02:39:15,655 who was considered difficult to work with 2595 02:39:15,758 --> 02:39:17,862 by virtually every director who ever used her. 2596 02:39:17,965 --> 02:39:20,965 Eva Renzi was famous for her love affairs and marriages, 2597 02:39:21,068 --> 02:39:22,620 always in the tabloids. 2598 02:39:22,724 --> 02:39:24,068 Had an abusive childhood. 2599 02:39:24,172 --> 02:39:27,344 Troubled adulthood. Two suicide attempts. 2600 02:39:27,448 --> 02:39:29,965 Lots of success on the German stage, though, 2601 02:39:30,068 --> 02:39:33,655 and supporting roles in a few big-budget '60s movies. 2602 02:39:33,758 --> 02:39:37,241 But she called this movie her "career suicide." 2603 02:39:37,344 --> 02:39:40,413 She was mostly famous for being famous, 2604 02:39:40,517 --> 02:39:44,379 but she was very convincing, in my opinion, in this role, 2605 02:39:44,482 --> 02:39:47,586 the role that she hated. 2606 02:39:47,689 --> 02:39:51,137 Argento was notorious for not being a plot person. 2607 02:39:51,241 --> 02:39:54,586 More interested in set pieces than in logical plotting. 2608 02:39:54,689 --> 02:39:58,965 But Ernesto Gastaldi called this a "cheat ending" 2609 02:39:59,068 --> 02:40:01,689 because Sam Dalmas can't remember what he saw 2610 02:40:01,793 --> 02:40:04,137 in the opening scene until the very end, 2611 02:40:04,241 --> 02:40:06,862 so it's all based on -- Gastaldi's point was that, 2612 02:40:06,965 --> 02:40:11,137 you know, when you do a "Oh, I remember now" ending, 2613 02:40:11,241 --> 02:40:13,413 you're using a plot point that could have been used 2614 02:40:13,517 --> 02:40:15,517 at any point during the entire movie, 2615 02:40:15,620 --> 02:40:18,310 so you're creating suspense by false pretenses. 2616 02:40:18,413 --> 02:40:21,172 So let's talk about story versus art direction. 2617 02:40:21,275 --> 02:40:25,310 The viability of the illogical storytelling in these movies. 2618 02:40:25,413 --> 02:40:27,310 And you're up, Sam. 2619 02:40:27,413 --> 02:40:30,000 -The answer, Joe Bob, is, who cares? 2620 02:40:30,103 --> 02:40:32,241 -Okay. -This is... 2621 02:40:32,344 --> 02:40:34,551 uh, one of the most pleasurable thrillers, 2622 02:40:34,655 --> 02:40:36,275 one of the most pleasurable giallo, 2623 02:40:36,379 --> 02:40:37,931 one of the most exciting to watch. 2624 02:40:38,034 --> 02:40:39,724 It's the cementing of Argento. 2625 02:40:39,827 --> 02:40:41,965 The legacy he went on to have after this 2626 02:40:42,068 --> 02:40:43,413 was not diminished by an ending 2627 02:40:43,517 --> 02:40:46,724 that some may consider illogical and some may not. 2628 02:40:46,827 --> 02:40:49,172 So whether the ending is a cheat or not, 2629 02:40:49,275 --> 02:40:51,000 ultimately, it doesn't fucking matter. 2630 02:40:51,103 --> 02:40:53,034 This movie rocks 2631 02:40:53,137 --> 02:40:58,413 and also leads to an incredible explanation and motivation 2632 02:40:58,517 --> 02:41:00,931 that I think is also the beginning of Argento starting 2633 02:41:01,034 --> 02:41:04,310 to tool around with reflexivity and metatextual layers, 2634 02:41:04,413 --> 02:41:06,793 especially with respect to the painting 2635 02:41:06,896 --> 02:41:09,379 and identifying with the killer, 2636 02:41:09,482 --> 02:41:11,620 which is an argument that would come for decades, 2637 02:41:11,724 --> 02:41:13,620 especially as you enter the slasher genre. 2638 02:41:13,724 --> 02:41:15,896 So it doesn't really matter. 2639 02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:17,586 -Okay. 2640 02:41:17,689 --> 02:41:19,965 Rebuttal, Lars? 2641 02:41:21,758 --> 02:41:23,827 -It must be nice to have the privilege 2642 02:41:23,931 --> 02:41:27,103 to say a thing like that... 2643 02:41:27,206 --> 02:41:31,551 ...to say to all the hardworking people 2644 02:41:31,655 --> 02:41:35,000 who take their family out to see maybe one movie a month, 2645 02:41:35,103 --> 02:41:38,482 to say, "Oh, it doesn't matter, dude. 2646 02:41:38,586 --> 02:41:40,689 It's so cool!" 2647 02:41:40,793 --> 02:41:44,241 Those people have invested this time 2648 02:41:44,344 --> 02:41:49,034 in this story, in these people. 2649 02:41:49,137 --> 02:41:52,000 And then it comes to the end of the film. 2650 02:41:53,103 --> 02:41:56,137 And it's a completely nonsensical like, 2651 02:41:56,241 --> 02:41:57,965 "Hey, you guys, get out of the theater. 2652 02:41:58,068 --> 02:42:00,344 It's over. This is how it all happened." 2653 02:42:00,448 --> 02:42:03,586 Everybody watching this is like, "Well, this guy, he saw that. 2654 02:42:03,689 --> 02:42:05,275 That can't be what happened, right?" 2655 02:42:05,379 --> 02:42:07,241 And so we're going through all these machinations like, 2656 02:42:07,344 --> 02:42:09,689 "Oh, well, when they announce the solution to this, 2657 02:42:09,793 --> 02:42:11,034 it's gonna be good. 2658 02:42:11,137 --> 02:42:13,034 It's gonna be good." But instead, what happens? 2659 02:42:13,137 --> 02:42:16,275 Argento looks at it and he goes, "Oh, it doesn't matter, guys!" 2660 02:42:16,379 --> 02:42:19,482 And now, 400 years later, 2661 02:42:19,586 --> 02:42:22,413 Sam Zimmerman says, "Oh, it doesn't matter, guys." 2662 02:42:22,517 --> 02:42:24,413 It still hurts those people 2663 02:42:24,517 --> 02:42:25,862 who bought those tickets, 2664 02:42:25,965 --> 02:42:27,862 and it still hurts audiences today. 2665 02:42:27,965 --> 02:42:29,517 -Does it hurt them because they were confronted 2666 02:42:29,620 --> 02:42:31,758 with the fact that their own memories are deceitful? 2667 02:42:31,862 --> 02:42:33,344 -Ooh! -Ooh! 2668 02:42:33,448 --> 02:42:35,310 -Well, that's a wonderful way to go back 2669 02:42:35,413 --> 02:42:39,517 and try to save yourself and to save your hero, Dario Argento. 2670 02:42:39,620 --> 02:42:42,620 But the movie, the ending of this movie, Sam, 2671 02:42:42,724 --> 02:42:44,448 still does not make sense. 2672 02:42:44,551 --> 02:42:46,206 Is this thing on? Yeah. 2673 02:42:46,310 --> 02:42:48,827 -Okay. -It doesn't bother me. 2674 02:42:48,931 --> 02:42:50,517 -Alright. 2675 02:42:50,620 --> 02:42:52,931 Now, everyone... 2676 02:42:53,034 --> 02:42:56,413 Please defend or criticize the ending where he says, 2677 02:42:56,517 --> 02:42:59,413 "Oh, now I remember what happened in the first scene!" 2678 02:42:59,517 --> 02:43:02,758 And the controversial -- 2679 02:43:02,862 --> 02:43:04,896 the overall plotting of the flick. 2680 02:43:05,000 --> 02:43:08,758 -The point of his distorted memory is that it's fed by cues 2681 02:43:08,862 --> 02:43:10,758 that we all sort of have subconsciously, 2682 02:43:10,862 --> 02:43:12,551 that the woman is the victim, 2683 02:43:12,655 --> 02:43:14,241 that the person in white is the good guy 2684 02:43:14,344 --> 02:43:16,482 and the person in black is the bad guy. 2685 02:43:16,586 --> 02:43:18,965 Sam Dalmas is not just, like, forgetting something. 2686 02:43:19,068 --> 02:43:21,206 He's completely misinterpreting something 2687 02:43:21,310 --> 02:43:23,931 based on his own cultural training. 2688 02:43:24,034 --> 02:43:26,275 That's what makes this movie so subversive. 2689 02:43:26,379 --> 02:43:28,034 -What's his cultural training? 2690 02:43:28,137 --> 02:43:29,655 -All the things I just said. 2691 02:43:29,758 --> 02:43:31,241 That you automatically assume 2692 02:43:31,344 --> 02:43:32,965 that the woman is the helpless victim. 2693 02:43:33,068 --> 02:43:35,379 You automatically associate white with good 2694 02:43:35,482 --> 02:43:37,068 and black with evil. 2695 02:43:37,172 --> 02:43:39,137 So he didn't really interpret what he saw. 2696 02:43:39,241 --> 02:43:40,862 It's not just that he didn't remember. 2697 02:43:40,965 --> 02:43:42,137 -This is an amazing point, 2698 02:43:42,241 --> 02:43:43,689 and I would like to ask that we cut that out. 2699 02:43:46,034 --> 02:43:47,931 -And furthermore, um... 2700 02:43:48,034 --> 02:43:50,206 I sort of wish that Argento had been allowed 2701 02:43:50,310 --> 02:43:52,862 to use his originally intended -- 2702 02:43:52,965 --> 02:43:54,482 Well, what was gonna happen 2703 02:43:54,586 --> 02:43:58,103 is that Suzy Kendall gets her head cut off. 2704 02:43:58,206 --> 02:44:00,068 -Mm-hmm. -And I think that an ending 2705 02:44:00,172 --> 02:44:02,689 with her dying savagely 2706 02:44:02,793 --> 02:44:04,827 would lend a lot more meaning 2707 02:44:04,931 --> 02:44:07,517 to Tony Musantes whole journey with this 2708 02:44:07,620 --> 02:44:10,172 and his sort of increasing rabid, 2709 02:44:10,275 --> 02:44:11,896 morbid fascination 2710 02:44:12,000 --> 02:44:14,758 that completely supersedes, like, his sex drive, 2711 02:44:14,862 --> 02:44:17,551 and it unlocks all his creative blocks and everything. 2712 02:44:17,655 --> 02:44:20,275 If he gets punished for it by this radical decapitation, 2713 02:44:20,379 --> 02:44:21,896 that would have been a lot stronger. 2714 02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:25,000 But apparently Tony Musante and Suzy Kendall 2715 02:44:25,103 --> 02:44:26,862 conspired to not have that in the movie. 2716 02:44:26,965 --> 02:44:29,620 -And Argento couldn't seal the deal. 2717 02:44:29,724 --> 02:44:31,482 -Troy, you got to jump in on this. 2718 02:44:31,586 --> 02:44:33,172 -He dropped the ball for sure there. 2719 02:44:33,275 --> 02:44:34,758 If he would have been a stronger, 2720 02:44:34,862 --> 02:44:36,793 more assertive filmmaker like Mario Bava, 2721 02:44:36,896 --> 02:44:38,206 he would have seen that ending through. 2722 02:44:38,310 --> 02:44:39,724 He wouldn't have been talked out of it. 2723 02:44:39,827 --> 02:44:42,517 It was his first time at the camera. I get that. 2724 02:44:42,620 --> 02:44:44,482 I understand. But I'm not gonna make excuses for it. 2725 02:44:44,586 --> 02:44:45,931 -Is the ending a cheat? 2726 02:44:46,034 --> 02:44:48,413 -It's a bullshit cop-out ending is what it is. 2727 02:44:48,517 --> 02:44:50,931 -Is the ending of "Bird with Crystal Plumage" a cheat? 2728 02:44:51,034 --> 02:44:53,724 Uh, yeah. We'll leave that to the audience. 2729 02:44:53,827 --> 02:44:55,413 -Think about all those Roman children 2730 02:44:55,517 --> 02:44:57,206 that went to see that film. -I know. 2731 02:44:57,310 --> 02:44:58,758 -I agree. I agree. 2732 02:44:58,862 --> 02:45:00,793 -Right now 16 million people are, like, laughing. 2733 02:45:00,896 --> 02:45:02,931 They're like, "Is that a cheat?" Yes, of course that's a cheat. 2734 02:45:03,034 --> 02:45:06,137 -Of course it is. -Alright. alright. 2735 02:45:06,241 --> 02:45:08,758 Um, time is up. 2736 02:45:10,241 --> 02:45:12,379 I think that... 2737 02:45:12,482 --> 02:45:16,758 I'm gonna go 6-4 to the Bavans on that. 2738 02:45:22,758 --> 02:45:27,482 And so that means that would give the Bavans 30, 2739 02:45:27,586 --> 02:45:29,655 and it would give the, uh... 2740 02:45:29,758 --> 02:45:31,103 Oh, wow. 2741 02:45:31,206 --> 02:45:33,379 That would give, uh, Argento 30. 2742 02:45:33,482 --> 02:45:36,896 We're gonna end up with 30-30 at the end of the first movie. 2743 02:45:37,000 --> 02:45:39,965 And so -- Alright. -It's hot in here. 2744 02:45:40,068 --> 02:45:44,206 -I want to add that Argento stole most of the plot 2745 02:45:44,310 --> 02:45:47,206 from a 1949 crime novel by Fredric Brown 2746 02:45:47,310 --> 02:45:48,793 called "The Screaming Mimi." 2747 02:45:48,896 --> 02:45:51,241 And, uh, even though Argento claims 2748 02:45:51,344 --> 02:45:52,965 he wrote the script in five days 2749 02:45:53,068 --> 02:45:55,206 while doing automatic writing in a hotel room, 2750 02:45:55,310 --> 02:45:57,034 it turns out he actually wrote it 2751 02:45:57,137 --> 02:45:59,137 in collaboration with Aldo Lado, 2752 02:45:59,241 --> 02:46:02,000 who would become his assistant director on the film 2753 02:46:02,103 --> 02:46:04,137 and then go on to make films of his own, 2754 02:46:04,241 --> 02:46:06,275 including "Short Night of Glass Dolls" 2755 02:46:06,379 --> 02:46:08,000 and one of the most critically acclaimed 2756 02:46:08,103 --> 02:46:10,206 of the gialli, "Who Saw Her Die?" 2757 02:46:10,310 --> 02:46:12,206 And then, of course, I should also point out 2758 02:46:12,310 --> 02:46:13,620 that "The Girl Who Knew Too Much," 2759 02:46:13,724 --> 02:46:15,896 made by Mario Bava in 1963, 2760 02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:19,000 also has a main character who witnesses an attempted murder 2761 02:46:19,103 --> 02:46:21,034 and eventually realizes the person 2762 02:46:21,137 --> 02:46:24,310 she thought was the victim was actually the attacker. 2763 02:46:24,413 --> 02:46:27,241 Um, so, anyway... 2764 02:46:27,344 --> 02:46:31,172 "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" was a hit in Italy. 2765 02:46:31,275 --> 02:46:33,448 Actually played for three and a half years 2766 02:46:33,551 --> 02:46:35,827 in one cinema in Milan. 2767 02:46:35,931 --> 02:46:38,275 And it was a modest hit in the rest of the world. 2768 02:46:38,379 --> 02:46:41,068 It started the avalanche of gialli coming out of Italy 2769 02:46:41,172 --> 02:46:44,379 in the years 1970 to 1973. 2770 02:46:44,482 --> 02:46:47,310 But now we're gonna fade back six years in time 2771 02:46:47,413 --> 02:46:50,689 to the Mario Bava film "Blood and Black Lace" 2772 02:46:50,793 --> 02:46:52,517 and ask the question, 2773 02:46:52,620 --> 02:46:57,724 had that avalanche already been gathering steam since 1964 2774 02:46:57,827 --> 02:47:00,206 and Argento just tipped it over the edge? 2775 02:47:00,310 --> 02:47:02,103 Or was "The Bird with the Crystal Plumage" 2776 02:47:02,206 --> 02:47:03,620 really that revolutionary? 2777 02:47:03,724 --> 02:47:05,655 We're kind of breaking our format tonight. 2778 02:47:05,758 --> 02:47:08,482 So rather than doing a mailbag, 2779 02:47:08,586 --> 02:47:11,965 I'm gonna write letters. 2780 02:47:12,068 --> 02:47:14,793 I'm gonna speak letters to our Team Argento panelists, 2781 02:47:14,896 --> 02:47:16,689 and they're gonna tell us what they know. 2782 02:47:16,793 --> 02:47:18,896 So, Claire, you run the New York branch 2783 02:47:19,000 --> 02:47:22,344 of the Institute of Miskatonic Studies, 2784 02:47:22,448 --> 02:47:24,620 which sounds both academic and a little goofy 2785 02:47:24,724 --> 02:47:26,724 because it's a take on H.P. Lovecraft's 2786 02:47:26,827 --> 02:47:29,862 fictional university where half-crazed academics 2787 02:47:29,965 --> 02:47:32,620 search for forbidden, esoteric knowledge. 2788 02:47:32,724 --> 02:47:35,275 Is that what you're doing? 2789 02:47:35,379 --> 02:47:37,206 That was a lot of words. 2790 02:47:37,310 --> 02:47:40,586 Um, let me -- let me try to reorder some of them. 2791 02:47:40,689 --> 02:47:43,620 It's the Miskatonic Institute of Horror Studies. 2792 02:47:43,724 --> 02:47:45,827 It is routinely confusing to people 2793 02:47:45,931 --> 02:47:48,896 that we are not a Lovecraft specific organization. 2794 02:47:49,000 --> 02:47:52,379 I also run the, um -- primarily now the online branch, 2795 02:47:52,482 --> 02:47:55,620 which means that I can have guests from all over the world 2796 02:47:55,724 --> 02:47:58,344 and connect them with audiences all over the world. 2797 02:47:58,448 --> 02:48:03,310 Um, this semester I started with an event that I like to call 2798 02:48:03,413 --> 02:48:05,724 "Everything you always wanted to know about 'Nekromantik' 2799 02:48:05,827 --> 02:48:07,241 but were afraid to ask," 2800 02:48:07,344 --> 02:48:08,689 which is a feature-length interview 2801 02:48:08,793 --> 02:48:10,517 with the great Jorg Buttgereit. -Wow. 2802 02:48:10,620 --> 02:48:13,862 -And then, um, November, I have, uh, Erica Shultz, 2803 02:48:13,965 --> 02:48:16,620 who wrote a really terrific book called "The Sweetest Taboo," 2804 02:48:16,724 --> 02:48:19,793 which is a survey of child deaths in horror movies. 2805 02:48:19,896 --> 02:48:21,034 -Okay. -So, um, yeah. 2806 02:48:21,137 --> 02:48:22,310 We have all kinds of stuff. 2807 02:48:22,413 --> 02:48:23,517 Did that answer your question? 2808 02:48:23,620 --> 02:48:25,344 What was your question? -Well, I think so. 2809 02:48:25,448 --> 02:48:27,689 The Institute for Miskatonic Studies. 2810 02:48:27,793 --> 02:48:29,413 Go online and check it out. Right? 2811 02:48:29,517 --> 02:48:31,344 -Go online and check it out. -Okay. 2812 02:48:31,448 --> 02:48:33,724 And, Sam, uh, we've never really talked about this, 2813 02:48:33,827 --> 02:48:35,517 but when you go to film festivals 2814 02:48:35,620 --> 02:48:37,517 and film markets and film events 2815 02:48:37,620 --> 02:48:40,620 looking for Shudder-worthy movies, 2816 02:48:40,724 --> 02:48:43,620 do you have to like the movie before you decide to buy it? 2817 02:48:43,724 --> 02:48:46,448 Or do you occasionally say, "I hate this movie, 2818 02:48:46,551 --> 02:48:49,379 but the horror faithful just might go for this movie"? 2819 02:48:49,482 --> 02:48:50,896 -I love all of my children equally. 2820 02:48:51,000 --> 02:48:52,793 -You love all movies that you -- 2821 02:48:52,896 --> 02:48:54,655 You don't love every movie you watch. 2822 02:48:54,758 --> 02:48:57,206 -The point of Shudder and the team who works Shudder 2823 02:48:57,310 --> 02:48:59,931 is preferably we do enjoy the movies we work on. 2824 02:49:00,034 --> 02:49:02,482 I think that is what hopefully distinguishes us. 2825 02:49:02,586 --> 02:49:04,620 -Okay. 2826 02:49:04,724 --> 02:49:06,896 So you do have, like, your own, 2827 02:49:07,000 --> 02:49:08,931 like, place in your brain 2828 02:49:09,034 --> 02:49:12,517 where you go, "I just can't support this movie. 2829 02:49:12,620 --> 02:49:16,379 Even though it might score points with the crowd. 2830 02:49:16,482 --> 02:49:17,827 I just can't support this movie." 2831 02:49:17,931 --> 02:49:19,517 -I appreciate all of our films. 2832 02:49:19,620 --> 02:49:21,793 Okay. 2833 02:49:21,896 --> 02:49:23,241 -Alright. I guess that's it 2834 02:49:23,344 --> 02:49:25,103 for the first half of Battle for the Black Glove. 2835 02:49:25,206 --> 02:49:27,586 I'm Joe Bob Briggs speaking for Darcy the Mail Girl 2836 02:49:27,689 --> 02:49:30,137 when I say that we've been busier than a one-legged man 2837 02:49:30,241 --> 02:49:32,689 at an ass-kicking convention lately, 2838 02:49:32,793 --> 02:49:35,620 but we're never too busy to listen to your comments, 2839 02:49:35,724 --> 02:49:37,862 your thumbs-ups, your thumbs-downs, 2840 02:49:37,965 --> 02:49:39,206 and your what the hell's? 2841 02:49:39,310 --> 02:49:41,172 So keep sending them. We do read them. 2842 02:49:41,275 --> 02:49:43,931 And "The Drive-In" will never die. 2843 02:49:45,655 --> 02:49:47,689 What do you call sweaty boobs, Darcy? 2844 02:49:47,793 --> 02:49:49,206 -I don't know. 2845 02:49:49,310 --> 02:49:51,103 -Humidi-titties. 2846 02:49:52,482 --> 02:49:53,862 -Aww. 2847 02:49:53,965 --> 02:49:56,862 You have people to laugh this time. That's awesome. 2848 02:49:56,965 --> 02:49:59,275 -I went to a haunted bed-and-breakfast in France, 2849 02:49:59,379 --> 02:50:01,068 but I had to leave. 2850 02:50:02,034 --> 02:50:03,862 The place was giving me the crepes. 2851 02:50:06,310 --> 02:50:08,103 -Y'all want to grade him? Points. 2852 02:50:08,206 --> 02:50:09,448 -Yeah. 2853 02:50:09,551 --> 02:50:12,000 -I asked the hotel receptionist for a wake-up call. 2854 02:50:12,103 --> 02:50:14,862 The next morning, she rang my room and said, 2855 02:50:14,965 --> 02:50:17,275 "What are you doing with your life?" 2856 02:50:20,551 --> 02:50:22,448 -Oh. Okay. 2857 02:50:22,551 --> 02:50:23,862 -Alright. I have one more. -Okay. 2858 02:50:23,965 --> 02:50:25,724 -You know why I love Bruce Lee? 2859 02:50:25,827 --> 02:50:28,241 Because he studied art and poetry 2860 02:50:28,344 --> 02:50:30,931 and decided the most beautiful form of self-expression 2861 02:50:31,034 --> 02:50:32,586 is punching somebody in the face. 2862 02:50:32,689 --> 02:50:34,103 -Yeah. 2863 02:50:35,482 --> 02:50:37,379 -Should have led with that. -That wasn't really a joke. 2864 02:50:37,482 --> 02:50:40,448 -You're on a roll. -It's a truism.